World Zionist Organization

[Chilla]

[ExGingi]

I don't think this is quite true anymore.
This is no longer just a Meretz/Labor/Lapid/Liberman talking point.
The everyman on the DatiLeumi/Chardal/Traditional street is in a very very very different place on this issue than they were pre Simchas Torah.

And honestly, I don't blame them.

TBH, I think the "Charedi" politicians and askonim are like a clumsy elephant in a fine china store.

EVERY. POSSIBLE. DUMB. INSENSITIVE. STATEMENT.

[zh cohen]

TBH, I think the "Charedi" politicians and askonim are like a clumsy elephant in a fine china store.

EVERY. POSSIBLE. DUMB. INSENSITIVE. STATEMENT.

You mean like making an anti-draft event on Oct. 7th 2024?

[yfr bachur]

TBH, I think the "Charedi" politicians and askonim are like a clumsy elephant in a fine china store.

EVERY. POSSIBLE. DUMB. INSENSITIVE. STATEMENT.

I think it's more than that.
When a tzibur has guys going off for their third, fourth etc round of miluim... missing their families, work, kollel... at some point they start to be just a little less accepting of our claim to a right to an exemption just for being registered in a yeshiva.

[chevron]

I think it's more than that.
When a tzibur has guys going off for their third, fourth etc round of miluim... missing their families, work, kollel... at some point they start to be just a little less accepting of our claim to a right to an exemption just for being registered in a yeshiva.

It's exactly this and it's creating a very unhappy chareidi leumi population

You know the joke going around about shaving for business during sefira and chasidim never shaving are more successful.

You have a huge population of guys sitting and learning, mechaber seforim etc who serve in the army.. month after month.

My friend is 40 something like 5 kids and a 100+ million dollar business and has been in Gaza fighting almost endless over last 1.5 year's

The draft exemption for guys who are bumming around just hurts the whole chareidi world .

These guys would benefit from the army discipline and skills. The chareidi guys actually learning would be left alone, the rest of country wouldn't be so negative.

[ExGingi]

I think it's more than that.
When a tzibur has guys going off for their third, fourth etc round of miluim... missing their families, work, kollel... at some point they start to be just a little less accepting of our claim to a right to an exemption just for being registered in a yeshiva.

There's a lack of coherent messaging (and possibly opinion) as to the REASON an exemption is wanted. I think this should be split into two categories:

1. People who are actually learning in Yeshivos (and Kollelim)
2. Rejection of draft due to העברה על הדת, regardless of learning status.

When there is no clear message regarding issue #2, there is increased resentment in the general public regarding issue #1. This is exacerbated by the very weak (to say the least) stance regarding "judicial reform". There are many in the IDF and in the government who are willing and eager to create a system where העברה על הדת would not be a concern. However, as long as the Juristocracy is in control, it can deteriorate very quickly, and promises and best intentions will be undone.

Just claiming a "special class" of people (what exactly is the definition?) called "Charedi" that will get an automatic exemption or special treatment, without explaining #2 above AND ITS INTERCONECTEDNESS WITH "JUDICIAL REFORM" is guaranteed to create resentment.

[chevron]

Right, so they have yet to fully accommodate chareidi soldier's above and beyond .

Will they? Possibly

[EliJelly]

Right, so they have yet to fully accommodate chareidi soldier's above and beyond .

Will they? Possibly

I'm afraid they wont allow talking in shul. I need a heimish setting.

[yfr bachur]

There's a lack of coherent messaging (and possibly opinion) as to the REASON an exemption is wanted. I think this should be split into two categories:

1. People who are actually learning in Yeshivos (and Kollelim)
2. Rejection of draft due to העברה על הדת, regardless of learning status.

When there is no clear message regarding issue #2, there is increased resentment in the general public regarding issue #1. This is exacerbated by the very weak (to say the least) stance regarding "judicial reform". There are many in the IDF and in the government who are willing and eager to create a system where העברה על הדת would not be a concern. However, as long as the Juristocracy is in control, it can deteriorate very quickly, and promises and best intentions will be undone.

Just claiming a "special class" of people (what exactly is the definition?) called "Charedi" that will get an automatic exemption or special treatment, without explaining #2 above AND ITS INTERCONECTEDNESS WITH "JUDICIAL REFORM" is guaranteed to create resentment.

I'm going to adress some of this here https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=139920.msg2938598#msg2938598
we can get it out of the WZO thread where it is not relevant.

[yfr bachur]

Right, so they have yet to fully accommodate chareidi soldier's above and beyond .

Will they? Possibly

They have yet to show that they are capable of this.
Even the brigade just started specifically to show that they are capable of providing a chareidi friendly framework is more or less a failure in that regard. Secular officers ranking above the hand-picked ones chosen to lead the unit are interfering, and proving that it just can't be done.