Author Topic: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related  (Read 286101 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2860 on: August 24, 2021, 02:11:46 PM »
Just a word on your example, one of the things the Rebbe taught was that a doctor's job is to try to heal the patient, not provide timelines. How many months a person lives is up to G-d. I would disregard any such words from a doctor and ask them to stick to the job at hand without making pronouncements or predictions.
I am probably missing something about Jewish doctors/medicine.   :)
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline iwlw2

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2861 on: August 24, 2021, 04:05:12 PM »
I think that oversimplification is necessary for messaging that the whole country will understand.  But the implication that follows those simple definitive statements is:  The rest is commentary. Go and learn.

So I feel that the more nuanced messages were always available - This isn't an issue of the CDC or other experts hiding the data.  So the question is, how could they have gotten it out there to more people?  Where else should they have been presenting it?  How could your acquaintances have become better informed (other than by reading DDF of course)?
I guess what it boils down to for me is the arrogance inherent in making sweeping statements without any humility in recognizing how much we or he (in the case of Fauci and others) do not know. Which sometimes has resulted in needing to walk statements back (e.g. yes masks or no masks, 70% or 90% vacccination rate for herd immunity etc.) and sometimes not even having the grace to do that but almost simply hoping that people would forget or ignore some of what they said.

I would use the natural immunity question as the example again as it bothers me the most, have you heard anyone from the CDC or Fauci etc. ever express anything about the possibility of that being a factor with real evenhandeness? And you can't simply say "well they didnt know and were waiting for the data", because then that holds true about vaccines as well. For example, does the statement "immunity may have a limited time span of efficacy, and may be less effective against new variants which have/will emerge" apply to vaccines or natural immunity, and to which one more than the other or at least possibly equally? So why have we heard it applied almost exclusively to naturally acquired immunity and not at all to vaccine-based immunity? This is but one example, although it is the most striking to me.

Offline biobook

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2862 on: August 24, 2021, 08:37:43 PM »
I guess what it boils down to for me is the arrogance inherent in making sweeping statements without any humility in recognizing how much we or he (in the case of Fauci and others) do not know.

Would you be able to find an actual quote, either here on DDF, or via Google, of Fauci making one of these statements that sound arrogant to you?  I wonder whether this might be one of those situations where two people listen to the same thing and come away with a very different impression.  Because I've heard Fauci many times, in press conferences and interviews, and he never sounded arrogant to me.  I don't know if we're listening to different media, or if the difference is that I hear him from the perspective of an insider, that is, if I am hearing something between the lines that is not in the actual words.  To me, it sounds like he is constantly emphasizing that there's lots we don't know, that we have to wait for the data, etc., so I'd really like to understand where you are getting the opposite view.
 
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Which sometimes has resulted in needing to walk statements back (e.g. yes masks or no masks, 70% or 90% vacccination rate for herd immunity etc.) and sometimes not even having the grace to do that but almost simply hoping that people would forget or ignore some of what they said.


He does this when his knowledge or the situation changes.  Much as a rav may say it's okay to eat in a particular restaurant, and then later "walk that statement back".  Do you accuse the rav of flip-flopping?  No, because you're familiar with kashrus issues, and you understand that there must have been something that led him to change his mind. 

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I would use the natural immunity question as the example again as it bothers me the most, have you heard anyone from the CDC or Fauci etc. ever express anything about the possibility of that being a factor with real evenhandeness?
"a factor" in what?  Are you asking what they have to say about the long term immunity of those who've recovered from covid?

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And you can't simply say "well they didnt know and were waiting for the data", because then that holds true about vaccines as well.

The question of how long naturally-acquired immunity to covid would last is something that has been discussed by the CDC, Fauci, and even DDF since about May 2020.  At that time, we had no idea, so were looking at research on how long immunity lasted after infection with other types of coronaviruses.  In August 2020, we saw the first reinfections, and asked: Were reinfections occurring only in those few people who had particularly weak immune systems?  Or were those the tip of the iceberg, and soon everyone would start to lose that naturally acquired immunity?  So they've been discussing naturally-acquired immunity for a year now, and the only way to get an answer was to wait for the data.  There!  I said it! :)

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For example, does the statement "immunity may have a limited time span of efficacy, and may be less effective against new variants which have/will emerge" apply to vaccines or natural immunity, and to which one more than the other or at least possibly equally?

Scientists have been asking this, and have speculated (that is, guessed based on their knowledge of other viruses and the immune system in general) but there's no consensus.  We really do have to wait for the data, but you can be sure that the data is being collected, because a lot of scientists want to get at the answer.

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So why have we heard it applied almost exclusively to naturally acquired immunity and not at all to vaccine-based immunity?
I'm not following you here.  Since June, when US and Israel started to see breakthrough infections, they've been trying to figure out how long-lasting vaccine-based immunity may be and how effective it is against new variants. 

Offline UKinNYS

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2863 on: August 26, 2021, 01:54:50 PM »

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2864 on: August 29, 2021, 06:54:49 AM »

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2865 on: August 29, 2021, 09:08:27 AM »
Can we get one for the unvaccinated here?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline JlmBoi

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2866 on: August 29, 2021, 09:11:04 AM »
Australia is out of their mind.
Ur presuming they have one. All evidence points against.
The chiddush of DDF is the way Dan Deals with all us crazies 🤪

Offline avromie7

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2867 on: August 29, 2021, 12:19:02 PM »
Can we get one for the unvaccinated here?
Maybe we should have one for the vaccinated.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Online Euclid

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2868 on: August 29, 2021, 12:42:59 PM »
Can we get one for the unvaccinated here?
We already do: hospitals.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2869 on: August 29, 2021, 12:51:04 PM »
Maybe we should have one for the vaccinated.
The camps are for the insane not the sane.  :)
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2870 on: August 29, 2021, 11:21:34 PM »
Do you have to practice to be this ignorant and stupid?


You don't have to practice, but you do have to ask dozens (or hundreds) of people about their opinions and then omit all the reasonable ones.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2871 on: August 30, 2021, 11:45:50 PM »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2872 on: August 30, 2021, 11:48:26 PM »

״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2873 on: August 30, 2021, 11:51:34 PM »
["-"]

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2874 on: August 30, 2021, 11:53:42 PM »
'Mutates twice as fast' is utter nonsense.

״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Traveler718

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2875 on: August 31, 2021, 09:48:16 AM »

Offline Traveler718

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2876 on: August 31, 2021, 09:49:46 AM »

Offline aygart

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2877 on: August 31, 2021, 10:35:26 AM »
'Mutates twice as fast' is utter nonsense.

If it mutates twice as fast it will be gone soon.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2878 on: August 31, 2021, 12:24:45 PM »
You lose credibility when you say or post arguments that a medicine can't work because it works for animals. They may have minor variations but there are hundreds of medications that are used for both. Don't we test our medicines/ vaccines first on animals?

Offline aygart

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Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #2879 on: August 31, 2021, 12:28:56 PM »
You lose credibility when you say or post arguments that a medicine can't work because it works for animals. They may have minor variations but there are hundreds of medications that are used for both. Don't we test our medicines/ vaccines first on animals?
There are 2 versions of Ivermectin
Feelings don't care about your facts