Corona virus and your shul

[S209]

It changed drastically over the past few days

It did change a lot but health is definitely still a tremendous concern, especially for older or immune compromised who have not appeared to be exposed yet.

[Yard sale]

On the contrary. The impression I'm getting based on all the restrictions being placed on porch/yard/street minyanim is that health is still a very big concern, especially in closed spaces.

I guess you weren’t on the call with all the Lakewood R”Y and roshei mosdos this week

[avromie7]

health is definitely still a tremendous concern, especially for older or immune compromised who have not appeared to be exposed yet.

As it should be, but for everyone else it really isn't.

[Lurker]

I guess you weren’t on the call with all the Lakewood R”Y and roshei mosdos this week

Nope. My impressions came from letters from that were signed and published.

[yaakov35]

Nope. My impressions came from letters from that were signed and published.

What about this where they literally say we want to open were just waiting for legal issues to clear up?

[Yard sale]

Nope. My impressions came from letters from that were signed and published.

There is one issue: How to sell it to the governor

[S209]

What about this where they literally say we want to open were just waiting for legal issues to clear up?

This is the cognitive dissonance I’ve been seeing over and over. Did your eyes completely glaze over the part where they say “safe” and “practical”? All you saw was “legal”?

[S209]

There is one issue: How to sell it to the governor

That is the opinion of many Rabbanim around Lakewood but some are still strongly fighting against it based on safety

[yaakov35]

This is the cognitive dissonance I’ve been seeing over and over. Did your eyes completely glaze over the part where they say “safe” and “practical”? All you saw was “legal”?

"For the time being due to legal considerations as well as practical concerns- we do not think it is a good idea to open shuls in lakewood at this point." This pretty much sums it up

[Lurker]

What about this where they literally say we want to open were just waiting for legal issues to clear up?

That's some selective reading, right there... "Legal and safe... for legal and practical..."

There's a balance to things. To say there is no health concerns in opening shuls is just blatantly false.

[S209]

"For the time being due to legal considerations as well as practical concerns- we do not think it is a good idea to open shuls in lakewood at this point." This pretty much sums it up

...... yeah, you’re right. They only discuss the legal aspect. My bad.

[Yard sale]

That is the opinion of many Rabbanim around Lakewood but some are still strongly fighting against it based on safety

Correct. The only thing standing in the way of the VAST MAJORITY of Lakewood’s shuls and mosdos opening at this point is the governor.

[Kobe Bryant]

It did change a lot but health is definitely still a tremendous concern, especially for older or immune compromised who have not appeared to be exposed yet.

Why would they even be part of the conversation when it comes to Shuls ot any other aspect of life being mandated by the government on the general population, We all understand they are in a separate group which may have to take drastic steps for a long time to come.

[ExGingi]

https://www.kipa.co.il/amp/961058

[S209]

Why would they even be part of the conversation when it comes to Shuls ot any other aspect of life being mandated by the government on the general population, We all understand they are in a separate group which may have to take drastic steps for a long time to come.

The question is does everybody understand that or not. I know a 68 year old teacher (married to a 71 year old) who feels “young at heart” and will definitely be going back in to teach if they recall her. Will schools have hard and fast rules or let teachers decide on their own? This 68 year old was finally convinced to stay home mostly because “your husband is older”

 The hamon am is still unfortunately not fully educated on all of the dangers. When they hear things are open, they will think they’re included, unlike the “vulnerable people” they keep hearing about. I think that’s a big part of the question right now, what is the cut off and how is it enforced regarding age, antibodies, other risk factors, etc. Also, what to do about their spouses and children.

[Kobe Bryant]

The question is does everybody understand that or not. I know a 68 year old teacher (married to a 71 year old) who feels “young at heart” and will definitely be going back in to teach if they recall her. Will schools have hard and fast rules or let teachers decide on their own? This 68 year old was finally convinced to stay home mostly because “your husband is older”

 The hamon am is still unfortunately not fully educated on all of the dangers. When they hear things are open, they will think they’re included, unlike the “vulnerable people” they keep hearing about. I think that’s a big part of the question right now, what is the cut off and how is it enforced regarding age, antibodies, other risk factors, etc. Also, what to do about their spouses and children.

A very valid point.
We can do what we can to educate people, and that's about it.
It doesn't change the equation when it comes to everyone else.

[Sam Finkelstein]

A very valid point.
We can do what we can to educate people, and that's about it.
It doesn't change the equation when it comes to everyone else.

+100

[ari3]

The question is does everybody understand that or not. I know a 68 year old teacher (married to a 71 year old) who feels “young at heart” and will definitely be going back in to teach if they recall her. Will schools have hard and fast rules or let teachers decide on their own? This 68 year old was finally convinced to stay home mostly because “your husband is older”

 The hamon am is still unfortunately not fully educated on all of the dangers. When they hear things are open, they will think they’re included, unlike the “vulnerable people” they keep hearing about. I think that’s a big part of the question right now, what is the cut off and how is it enforced regarding age, antibodies, other risk factors, etc. Also, what to do about their spouses and children.

The question from a halachic standpoint If schools and shuls open in a safe manner and your young at heart 68 yo teacher doesn't listen to the guidelines and goes to teach and something happens her, who takes blame for that. I think that would be her problem not the tzibburs. I would not be convinced that the tzibbur at large should refrain from opening due to such individuals. People need to take responsibility for themselves. (obviously that is a question for rabbonim but just bringing up the point).

[S209]

The question from a halachic standpoint If schools and shuls open in a safe manner and your young at heart 68 yo teacher doesn't listen to the guidelines and goes to teach and something happens her, who takes blame for that. I think that would be her problem not the tzibburs. I would not be convinced that the tzibbur at large should refrain from opening due to such individuals. People need to take responsibility for themselves. (obviously that is a question for rabbonim but just bringing up the point).

It’s true that people need tot ale responsibility for themselves but we do make gezeiros and lo plugs for less. I’m not advocating keeping everyone completely shut down, I’m saying it’s a significant part of the equation in how to do this in the most safe and effective manner, and needs to be addressed.

I am in favor of beginning a smart and safe reopening of Lakewood at this point.

[aygart]

The question from a halachic standpoint If schools and shuls open in a safe manner and your young at heart 68 yo teacher doesn't listen to the guidelines and goes to teach and something happens her, who takes blame for that. I think that would be her problem not the tzibburs. I would not be convinced that the tzibbur at large should refrain from opening due to such individuals. People need to take responsibility for themselves. (obviously that is a question for rabbonim but just bringing up the point).

Because this worked so well when we tried it Purim time.

Somehow the same people who were saying to do this then are saying the same thing now without batting an eye from all those who died as a result of those few weeks. How many people fit into the "higher risk" category? I spoke with a Rov who asked some random people in his kehilla and was surpiised to find that close to half would be consdidered higher risk. That is probably lower among 20-30 year olds than his kehilla which is mostly around 40, but would make sense for the typical school parent body considering that there are plenty of 55 year old "old fogies" who still have elementary school age children.