Corona virus and your shul

[aygart]

That is a valid argument in a vacuum but this is far from a zero cost decision either way. You have kids that are severely struggling in school on the phone, more than a few of which will become  tomorrow’s kids at risk. There are severe parnassa issues many of which threaten to become long-term problems further impacting families. There are special needs kids who’s families are suffering. There are ruchniyus tragedies that are unfolding as people remain isolated from their shuls, Kehillos, and yeshivos (ask guardyoureyes for just one small aspect of the problem). The roshei yeshivos have a lot more than peoples itch to get out and have a good time on their minds.

Oh I fully get all that, but over here we are seeing people who are just itching to get out being totally reckless with the lives of others. That is a very serious impediment and is a reason to stay closed for longer. If thewse people would be willing to follow restrictions it would make things much easoer to open things back up.

[Lurker]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-butte-county-mothers-day-church-service-california-exposed-180-health-department

[avromie7]

Oh I fully get all that, but over here we are seeing people who are just itching to get out being totally reckless with the lives of others. That is a very serious impediment and is a reason to stay closed for longer. If thewse people would be willing to follow restrictions it would make things much easoer to open things back up.

As time goes on there are more and more people saying just forget the whole thing. The longer we stay locked down the more people will join that group. A friend of mine told me he thought his parents are being too extreme even though his father is 70 k"ah. We should continue stressing that those who are at risk mustn't let their guard down.

Another big issue is people who are at risk are having a very hard time staying locked in. At this point we need to have some end game as to how people who already tested positive for antibodies can come in contact with at risk people. They're not going to stay alone for much longer and it's incredibly detrimental to their health.

[aygart]

As time goes on there are more and more people saying just forget the whole thing. The longer we stay locked down the more people will join that group. A friend of mine told me he thought his parents are being too extreme even though his father is 70 k"ah. We should continue stressing that those who are at risk mustn't let their guard down.

Another big issue is people who are at risk are having a very hard time staying locked in. At this point we need to have some end game as to how people who already tested positive for antibodies can come in contact with at risk people. They're not going to stay alone for much longer and it's incredibly detrimental to their health.

Yes the lack of a reopening plan is extremely dangerous and a big cause of the whole thing being ignored by some.

[avromie7]

Yes the lack of a reopening plan is extremely dangerous and a big cause of the whole thing being ignored by many.

FTFY

[ExGingi]

My cousin, who is a member of Hatzolah, stopped by my house on Shabbos. He stopped wearing a mask or maintaining any distancing (except where legally required). The only symptom he had at a certain point was loss of smell. He told me that he and his brother visit their elderly (as in over 90 year old) father daily. He was one of those who told me that the local doctor would have had the schools and shuls open if legally permitted.

[Sam Finkelstein]

Yes the lack of a reopening plan is extremely dangerous and a big cause of the whole thing being ignored by some.

But is there a better solution?

[avromie7]

But is there a better solution?

Open up?

[S209]

My cousin, who is a member of Hatzolah, stopped by my house on Shabbos. He stopped wearing a mask or maintaining any distancing (except where legally required). The only symptom he had at a certain point was loss of smell. He told me that he and his brother visit their elderly (as in over 90 year old) father daily. He was one of those who told me that the local doctor would have had the schools and shuls open if legally permitted.

I wrote out a post about Hatzalah but didn’t post it because they are fantastic people who deserve a lot of respect from us and it would be perceived as sharp criticism. All I’ll say is, Hatzalah do not know as much as doctors.

Did he test for antibodies?

[cmey]

That is a valid argument in a vacuum but this is far from a zero cost decision either way. You have kids that are severely struggling in school on the phone, more than a few of which will become  tomorrow’s kids at risk. There are severe parnassa issues many of which threaten to become long-term problems further impacting families. There are special needs kids who’s families are suffering. There are ruchniyus tragedies that are unfolding as people remain isolated from their shuls, Kehillos, and yeshivos (ask guardyoureyes for just one small aspect of the problem). Ask Moishy D. of TAG how many Netfix accounts they have had to open. Remember at the beginning of this machala when some foolish people said it’s no big deal not realizing that all the data was two weeks behind until that horrific motzai shabbos came? That is what we are beginning to deal with. It will be months from now before we grasp the enormity of what is hitting the community, and perhaps years for the effects to become fully apparent. The roshei yeshivos have a lot more than peoples itch to get out and have a good time on their minds.

 Not to mention that mental health professionals in Lakewood are seeing a major decrease in clients. Whether it’s people not being comfortable interacting over the phone or people afraid to leave their homes, there are a significant number of people who are not getting the help they desperately need. The longer this continues the more this is sure to have an impact in the coming months.

[S209]

Open up?

What plan would you implement to curtail all of the problems raised with reopening? What criteria, what precautions, what type of enforcement?

[aygart]

But is there a better solution?

To have a plan and communicate it well. I've written that many times here. When Murphy does nothing but discuss Murphy's Law it makes him irrelevant.

[aygart]

FTFY

Okay.

[S209]

Not to mention that mental health professionals in Lakewood are seeing a major decrease in clients. Whether it’s people not being comfortable interacting over the phone or people afraid to leave their homes, there are a significant number of people who are not getting the help they desperately need. The longer this continues the more this is sure to have an impact in the coming months.

So you’re saying there are actually LESS mental health counseling sessions happening now? Somehow that’s automatically a bad thing?Maybe this quarantine is actually having a positive effect on mental health, and being with family a lot is a net positive?

[avromie7]

What plan would you implement to curtail all of the problems raised with reopening? What criteria, what precautions, what type of enforcement?

The curve is flattened. Let adults make their own decisions, I'm ok with restrictions in essential businesses because at risk people need tlto eat too so we should protect them. Otherwise if you feel comfortable going to a clothing store, and the owner is comfortable opening up I'm not sure why the government should get in the way.

[Lurker]

So you’re saying there are actually LESS mental health counseling sessions happening now? Somehow that’s automatically a bad thing?Maybe this quarantine is actually having a positive effect on mental health, and being with family a lot is a net positive?

Lol! That's an interesting theory, but doubtful. IME, family is why people need therapy to begin with.

[Kobe Bryant]

But is there a better solution?

Better solution than what??

[Kobe Bryant]

The curve is flattened. Let adults make their own decisions, I'm ok with restrictions in essential businesses because at risk people need tlto eat too so we should protect them. Otherwise if you feel comfortable going to a clothing store, and the owner is comfortable opening up I'm not sure why the government should get in the way.

This basically sums it up.

[aygart]

The curve is flattened.

But will it stay that way?

[Kobe Bryant]

So you’re saying there are actually LESS mental health counseling sessions happening now? Somehow that’s automatically a bad thing?Maybe this quarantine is actually having a positive effect on mental health, and being with family a lot is a net positive?

Would definitely explain the uptick in suicides.