Author Topic: Corona virus and your shul  (Read 323170 times)

Offline Lurker

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2400 on: May 24, 2020, 03:16:50 PM »
I'm referring to organizations, not individuals.

Again, why the labels? Why the generalizations? To what gain?
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Online ushdadude

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2401 on: May 24, 2020, 03:17:06 PM »
According to Rabbi Leibel Shapiro of Miami, a respected Rov in and out of Lubavitch, there is no chiyuv to go to shul if one feels there is a risk of catching this virus. I'm not saying everyone needs to follow his psak, but there is most definitely a basis in halacha.
Is anyone calling it a chiyuv? Most letters that I've read are calling it a heter.

Online ushdadude

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2402 on: May 24, 2020, 03:17:44 PM »
Again, why the labels? Why the generalizations? To what gain?


I didn't make the divide. I'm just observing it.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2403 on: May 24, 2020, 03:21:19 PM »

I didn't make the divide. I'm just observing it.
One side is being machmir on minyan, thr other on pikuach nefesh.

If those 2 ideals clash, Halacha clearly goes according to the latter. Quite honestly, hearing about all the "minyanim" inside with no masks and no distancing is sickening.

If the biggest Taynah HKBH has agaisnt the Modern Orthodox community is that we waited 2 weeks too long to daven with a minyan, so be it. Poskim operated in consultation with doctors and came to the best decision they could.

Communities having "unsafe" minyanim could end up with a body count c"v. Not something I want to be a part of.

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2404 on: May 24, 2020, 03:21:45 PM »
Is anyone calling it a chiyuv? Most letters that I've read are calling it a heter.

He asked if there is a basis in halacha to be machmir and not open shuls. My answer is that there is.
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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2405 on: May 24, 2020, 03:24:24 PM »
One side is being machmir on minyan, thr other on pikuach nefesh.

If those 2 ideals clash, Halacha clearly goes according to the latter. Quite honestly, hearing about all the "minyanim" inside with no masks and no distancing is sickening.

If the biggest Taynah HKBH has agaisnt the Modern Orthodox community is that we waited 2 weeks too long to daven with a minyan, so be it. Poskim operated in consultation with doctors and came to the best decision they could.

Communities having "unsafe" minyanim could end up with a body count c"v. Not something I want to be a part of.


I agree 100% but there is ahuge gap between unsafe indoors and nothing at all.

Offline Iz

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2406 on: May 24, 2020, 03:25:00 PM »
One side is being machmir on minyan, thr other on pikuach nefesh.
Of course. The other side thinks minyan is more important than pikuach nefesh! They don't know what a real machmir is.

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2407 on: May 24, 2020, 03:25:12 PM »
He asked if there is a basis in halacha to be machmir and not open shuls. My answer is that there is.


Oh. I agree with that.

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2408 on: May 24, 2020, 03:25:22 PM »
What percentage of NYC shuls do you think will actually follow safety measures? I'm a straight up am haaretz. But I believe there's basis in halacha for not opening a door to dangerous things when you know that many, if not most, will not follow the rules.

I think it's the other way round at this point. Everyone agrees it's time to reopen. Because of regulations being unreasonably strict, people are disregarding ALL precautions.

As bad as Corona got us, there have not been any new cases in about 2 months. (this is not a hard scientific number, it's the anecdotal experience of the average frum NYer) So NY locked down two weeks late, and now they are reopening two months too late. Had the powers that be announced a planned and thought out reopening schedule, people would have gone along with it. But instead we have no announcements, no reopening and just mocking condescension from the governor and mayor.

Shuls as big as 770 and a class minyan in a basement have the same 10 person restriction. It's ludicrous. And meanwhile sports teams are allowed to restart playing as of today?

Why would anyone follow any rules? They are clearly being made by clueless idiots. Had Cuomo at with actual frum people to create safe reopening guidelines, people would have been davenning at socially distant minyanim safely. Instead we're having hundreds of maskless people fressing at kiddushim.

He's murdered 5000 seniors already, any second wave as a result is on him too.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2409 on: May 24, 2020, 03:27:36 PM »

I agree 100% but there is ahuge gap between unsafe indoors and nothing at all.
Just reading through this thread, this past shabbos provided evidence that people can't be trusted. Packed rooms of more than the suggested 10-25, no masks, a regular laining with people within 6 feet of each other.

If you'd tell me that everyone on the "right" was keeping to guidelines, there would be more to stand on. But clearly that's not happening.

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2410 on: May 24, 2020, 03:29:36 PM »
Just reading through this thread, this past shabbos provided evidence that people can't be trusted. Packed rooms of more than the suggested 10-25, no masks, a regular laining with people within 6 feet of each other.

If you'd tell me that everyone on the "right" was keeping to guidelines, there would be more to stand on. But clearly that's not happening.


I think you skipped all the posts about shuls that did it properly.

Offline Sam Finkelstein

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2411 on: May 24, 2020, 03:30:29 PM »
Just reading through this thread, this past shabbos provided evidence that people can't be trusted. Packed rooms of more than the suggested 10-25, no masks, a regular laining with people within 6 feet of each other.

If you'd tell me that everyone on the "right" was keeping to guidelines, there would be more to stand on. But clearly that's not happening.

The thing is that they would actually listen in Bergen County shuls.
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Offline YitzyS

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2412 on: May 24, 2020, 03:30:49 PM »
Of course. The other side thinks minyan is more important than pikuach nefesh! They don't know what a real machmir is.

I agree 100% but there is ahuge gap between unsafe indoors and nothing at all.
With a little effort, minyanim can take place safely. I don't see any justification for lowering your mask. In fact, being lax - besides for the potential health risks - locks out those who are being stringent about social distancing.

Offline Sam Finkelstein

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2413 on: May 24, 2020, 03:31:58 PM »
With a little effort, minyanim can take place safely. I don't see any justification for lowering your mask. In fact, being lax - besides for the potential health risks - locks out those who are being stringent about social distancing.

Unfortunately very hard to enforce in certain communities.
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Offline Sam Finkelstein

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2414 on: May 24, 2020, 03:33:21 PM »
Not saying Cuomo isn't to blame, but where is the community leadership?
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Offline Dan

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2415 on: May 24, 2020, 03:33:48 PM »
I think it's the other way round at this point. Everyone agrees it's time to reopen. Because of regulations being unreasonably strict, people are disregarding ALL precautions.

As bad as Corona got us, there have not been any new cases in about 2 months. (this is not a hard scientific number, it's the anecdotal experience of the average frum NYer) So NY locked down two weeks late, and now they are reopening two months too late. Had the powers that be announced a planned and thought out reopening schedule, people would have gone along with it. But instead we have no announcements, no reopening and just mocking condescension from the governor and mayor.

Shuls as big as 770 and a class minyan in a basement have the same 10 person restriction. It's ludicrous. And meanwhile sports teams are allowed to restart playing as of today?

Why would anyone follow any rules? They are clearly being made by clueless idiots. Had Cuomo at with actual frum people to create safe reopening guidelines, people would have been davenning at socially distant minyanim safely. Instead we're having hundreds of maskless people fressing at kiddushim.

He's murdered 5000 seniors already, any second wave as a result is on him too.
Sigh.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2416 on: May 24, 2020, 03:38:26 PM »
Unfortunately very hard to enforce in certain communities.
All those people who spent their Pesach alone with the ultimate mesirus nefesh shouldn't come up to shomayim expecting any reward for it if they shed all precautions the moment they grew bored.

Come at me as hard as you want. I'm davening at home today because of the complete (and needless) disregard at my shul.

Offline YitzyS

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Offline Sam Finkelstein

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2418 on: May 24, 2020, 03:41:59 PM »
All those people who spent their Pesach alone with the ultimate mesirus nefesh shouldn't come up to shomayim expecting any reward for it if they shed all precautions the moment they grew bored.

Come at me as hard as you want. I'm davening at home today because of the complete (and needless) disregard at my shul.

I'm with you on that. I'm back to the outdoor minyan, despite the bugs that are biting everywhere. When it stops, I'm going to have to find someplace that isn't too crowded, even if it means getting up earlier than I'd like to.
(And I already had COVID and tested positive for antibodies.)
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Offline YitzyS

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Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2419 on: May 24, 2020, 03:43:23 PM »
I'm with you on that. I'm back to the outdoor minyan, despite the bugs that are biting everywhere. When it stops, I'm going to have to find someplace that isn't too crowded, even if it means getting up earlier than I'd like to.
(And I already had COVID and tested positive for antibodies.)
Thanks for your support. I have lost my outdoor minyan to the shul...