Author Topic: Corona virus and your shul  (Read 324669 times)

Offline reed

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 565
  • Total likes: 65
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2440 on: May 24, 2020, 04:35:46 PM »
I really thought I could not be shocked anymore. I thought I had seen at all. However the frum oilem has risen to the occasion again. Packed minyanim indoors, no masks, not even a hint of social distancing, Kiddiashim, acting like it never happened...

Does no one remember the days where we heard of 10-15 people that we knew personally dying per day? Did we just sweep that under the rug and move on like nothing happened?!

Why must we always be so stupid? Why canít we be smart, proactive, cautious?! Is it because we donít go to college and therefore we donít see science as an integral part of life? Is it our Yeshiva system that teaches us that we are smarter than everyone else and to scoff at the secular?

I donít know the answer but Iím frightened and distressed by what is going on.

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2774
  • Total likes: 322
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2441 on: May 24, 2020, 04:38:04 PM »
Thanks for the reminder. I guess the rabonim who hold otherwise are just מקילים or not as knowledgable.
In any case, my post was about the people in shul. No need to tar them as hockers. Maybe they are following their rabonim (who are מקילים...).
Alternatively, people are disregarding the rules set by the rabbonim.

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 2698
  • Total likes: 3154
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2442 on: May 24, 2020, 04:40:57 PM »
I really thought I could not be shocked anymore. I thought I had seen at all. However the frum oilem has risen to the occasion again. Packed minyanim indoors, no masks, not even a hint of social distancing, Kiddiashim, acting like it never happened...

Does no one remember the days where we heard of 10-15 people that we knew personally dying per day? Did we just sweep that under the rug and move on like nothing happened?!

Why must we always be so stupid? Why canít we be smart, proactive, cautious?! Is it because we donít go to college and therefore we donít see science as an integral part of life? Is it our Yeshiva system that teaches us that we are smarter than everyone else and to scoff at the secular?

I donít know the answer but Iím frightened and distressed by what is going on.
One minute, did you realize even once that there were no new cases in the frum communities for almost two months when you asked all these questions?

Offline Sam Finkelstein

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Feb 2015
  • Posts: 2918
  • Total likes: 295
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York, NY
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2443 on: May 24, 2020, 04:47:56 PM »
Alternatively, people are disregarding the rules set by the rabbonim.
This.
Formula for success: rise early, work hard, strike oil. ĖJ. Paul Getty

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 2698
  • Total likes: 3154
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2444 on: May 24, 2020, 04:58:51 PM »
Btw, Interesting fact how people are getting נשפע from the סביבה. I just came back from the Doctor's office with my child. The Doctor and his staff are MO Jews. Nurses wore no masks, and Dr's mask was conveniently located on the chin. Or maybe they know better.

Offline YitzyS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 5490
  • Total likes: 13289
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2445 on: May 24, 2020, 05:01:01 PM »
One minute, did you realize even once that there were no new cases in the frum communities for almost two months when you asked all these questions?
That is not true. I've heard that Hatzolah in Lakewood is still transporting patients regularly with COVID symptoms. Obviously, and thankfully, not nearly as many as pre-Pesach, but there are still cases breaking out.

Offline Sam Finkelstein

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Feb 2015
  • Posts: 2918
  • Total likes: 295
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York, NY
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2446 on: May 24, 2020, 05:02:40 PM »
That is not true. I've heard that Hatzolah in Lakewood is still transporting patients regularly with COVID symptoms. Obviously, and thankfully, not nearly as many as pre-Pesach, but there are still cases breaking out.
Why is this not being reported on?
Formula for success: rise early, work hard, strike oil. ĖJ. Paul Getty

Offline ari3

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 1324
  • Total likes: 497
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: new jersey
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2447 on: May 24, 2020, 05:03:18 PM »
Are the people who are going to shul and disregarding the regulations going as an expression of Avodas Hashem, or as a way to fuel their desire for "hocking" and getting pleasure from going?
Alternatively, people are disregarding the rules set by the rabbonim.
that still doesn't make them hockers. If you walk down the street or go to the store you might notice most people no longer take social distancing that seriously. these people aren't suddenly going to get strict in shul even if they are serious about their avodas hashem

I think you can use a dose of
Is there a way to have the quote from Rabbi reisman about ayin tov automatically pop up when you click on this thread?


Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 2698
  • Total likes: 3154
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2448 on: May 24, 2020, 05:03:37 PM »
That is not true. I've heard that Hatzolah in Lakewood is still transporting patients regularly with COVID symptoms. Obviously, and thankfully, not nearly as many as pre-Pesach, but there are still cases breaking out.
Really? Any other Lakewooders here to confirm?
I heard otherwise for BP/CH/Willy and KJ.

Offline iwlw2

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 249
  • Total likes: 184
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2449 on: May 24, 2020, 05:06:42 PM »
Kinda hard when reading this thread to not get caught up one way or the other, but just to try to lower the flames here a bit in the spirit of Rabbi Reisman's wise words posted upthread. It does not have to be all or nothing. Meaning, that while reasonable people can and do disagree (sometimes unreasonably  ;)), there are actual doctors and competent Rabbis who maintain that in certain communities (Lakewood for example) the virus seems to have now run its course (at least for now). And there has been more than a few weeks of almost no social distancing (for better or for worse, thats just been whats going on especially with the kids) with no signifigant uptick. This would seem to allow for some lessening of restrictions.
And while I think they would all agree on the need to be vigilant for any sign of a re-bound, the current data (new infection rate, hospitalization etc.) being relayed by Hatzala and local medical facilities, tells a certain story for now. Of course vulnerable people need to be extra careful, and it would behoove everyone to continue with certain precautions- as relevant and possible, but we are clearly not in the same place now that we were before Purim.
And as an aside, please correct me if I'm wrong, but while I understand the reluctance of most doctors to say so outright (they and everyone have been fooled so much by everything about this novel virus and been wrong about so much so often), the overwhelming data seems to support the fact that those who have antibodies are almost certainly not going to catch it again (for at least a significant amount of time, let's not forget there are countries well ahead of us on this, and there has not been any significant reports of reinfection). So to say that only those who have antibodies should come to shul presents a whole different precaution level. (Of course there are other issues with that in cases where it effectively ends safe backyard minyanim for those not yet infected.)

Offline YitzyS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 5490
  • Total likes: 13289
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2450 on: May 24, 2020, 05:07:04 PM »

Offline ari3

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 1324
  • Total likes: 497
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: new jersey
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2451 on: May 24, 2020, 05:07:52 PM »
Why is this not being reported on?
because it may be #fake news

Offline flyingace

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 1394
  • Total likes: 378
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2452 on: May 24, 2020, 05:08:52 PM »
Really? Any other Lakewooders here to confirm?
I heard otherwise for BP/CH/Willy and KJ.
I don't think it's true. Definitely not regularly, possibly some.

Offline ari3

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 1324
  • Total likes: 497
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: new jersey
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2453 on: May 24, 2020, 05:10:18 PM »
Btw, Interesting fact how people are getting נשפע from the סביבה. I just came back from the Doctor's office with my child. The Doctor and his staff are MO Jews. Nurses wore no masks, and Dr's mask was conveniently located on the chin. Or maybe they know better.
is his Shul locked with no outdoor minyan because of ספק פיקוח נפש?

Offline YitzyS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 5490
  • Total likes: 13289
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2454 on: May 24, 2020, 05:11:20 PM »
I don't think it's true. Definitely not regularly, possibly some.
Perhaps regularly is the wrong word. Definitely more than just 1 or 2 cases. I don't know the exact number. I got this from a Hatzolah member, but not from an official Hatzolah source.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7440
  • Total likes: 3881
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2455 on: May 24, 2020, 05:18:10 PM »
You said like 4 posts earlier you didnít want to hijack this thread. I guess your sentiment towards that didnít last too long
People kept up with the idiotic commentary. Itís one thing to relate whatís happening, itís another to excuse it
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline YitzyS

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 5490
  • Total likes: 13289
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2456 on: May 24, 2020, 05:21:15 PM »
Just for some perspective:

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 16969
  • Total likes: 13529
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2457 on: May 24, 2020, 05:22:36 PM »
Really? Any other Lakewooders here to confirm?
I heard otherwise for BP/CH/Willy and KJ.
Someone here reported otherwise from BP Hatzolah.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yelped

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2015
  • Posts: 9921
  • Total likes: 3453
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 43
    • View Profile
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2458 on: May 24, 2020, 05:26:34 PM »
Really? Any other Lakewooders here to confirm?
I heard otherwise for BP/CH/Willy and KJ.
Yes, I've heard of calls to Hatzola in Lakewood and BP. You guys are living in an alternative reality.

Offline Moshe123

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 6084
  • Total likes: 903
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Spring Valley
  • Programs: Lost
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2459 on: May 24, 2020, 05:30:52 PM »
The way I look at it is, are these same Rabbanim meikil on most other things, or are they machmirim elsewhere? Explains if it's a kula or a chumra.