Corona virus and your shul

[Shmobaum]

I heard otherwise from a highly active MEDIC in Lakewood. Now beat that!

You win

[Kobe Bryant]

Can you please stop playing this card?
We all don't want people to die. If you think you're any more sensitive to that than anyone else, you're definitely wrong.

FTFY
I can't understand why this even needs to be said on a forum like this...(unfortunately i think it does).
If we can all agree on this premise, and have an intellectually honest conversation, we will get much further....

[Sam Finkelstein]

I assume that this is for me.

None of this? No way. Heck, how many Shuls remained open throughout?

Would it be a heck of a lot better by a factor of a million had Cuomo/Murphy laid out clear, logical, plans 2 months or even 1 month ago?

Absolutely. Especially in places like Crown Heights where people did follow the rules.

Dunno. Some Shuls actually waited to open and are following the rules, but others did their own thing.

[YitzyS]

http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2020/05/covid19-update-why-we-still-need-social.html

From a Lakewood Pediatric practice email sent to their patients

5/21/20 Why We Still Need Social Distancing Now

B’chasdei Hashem, the situation in Lakewood is much better now than it has been at any time since the COVID-19 Pandemic began. New cases of COVID-19 infection in our Kehilla have, B’H, dropped drastically — to the point that it may seem like the illness is out of our Kehilla.

This has many people asking a similar question:

“If the virus is not in Lakewood anymore, why do we need to continue
these drastic restrictions? Why can’t things go back to normal, to the way it
was before COVID-19? How long are we supposed to be locked down like this?!”

In fact, the COVID-19 virus and illness is not prevalent right now in Lakewood. Everyone can see that our Tefillos and Hishtadlus have had a great impact. However, even though we do not see the illness amongst us now, it is definitely not entirely gone. The COVID-19 virus still poses a great danger for our Kehilla were it to flare up again — even briefly.
While there are specific ways that we can responsibly loosen some of the restrictions on ourselves, it is important to understand what is happening now, what could happen, and what we expect to come.

Our responsible actions as individuals now — while still very difficult for us —
may likely mean the difference between life and, Chas V’Sholom, death
for vulnerable members of our Kehilla.

Here are two key points:



The first point that is important for our Kehilla to know:

It is established throughout history
that pandemic outbreaks of illness come in waves.

After the first wave of a pandemic illness a “lull” comes. During the lull, the illness recedes from the community, like a tide of water that pulls back from the land after a tidal wave crashes in, and the illness seemingly disappears. However, following the lull a second pandemic wave comes, sweeping through the population once again. While the second wave of illness is usually not as large as the first wave of illness, its destructive powers are nevertheless the same.

We have just lived through the first pandemic wave of COVID-19 illness. We witnessed before our eyes the awesome, devastating, destructive power of the COVID-19 virus. B’Chasdei HaShem, now, at this very moment, we are right in the middle of the lull
— and it feels like ...finally, finally, finally... THE VIRUS IS GONE!!!

However, we must realize that the risk of a future second wave is a real and present dangerous risk to our Kehilla.

The second point that it is important for our Kehilla to know:

Although COVID-19 illness is almost gone in Lakewood at this moment,
the COVID-19 virus is still actively infecting people
throughout New Jersey and New York.


In our pediatric practice alone, we have 100-200 entire families who had no symptoms of illness during this whole period! Lakewood now has perhaps thousands of entire families who are not immune to the COVID-19 virus and who are vulnerable to infection. In addition, the vast majority of the elderly and other high-risk individuals properly quarantined themselves early on, and did not get infected during this Pandemic. They are all still not immune to the virus and are vulnerable to infection.

At the same time, there are hundreds of newly active cases of COVID-19 illness in the towns around us and in the region. Should we let our guard down and push the restrictions aside, a single contagious individual could re-introduce the virus back into our community. Lo Aleinu, a spark could be lit that would wreak havoc again.

Our Kehilla is not automatically safe now. We are at risk even now — even before a second wave. It is our responsibility to recognize this risk and to act individually in a way that protects those in our Kehilla who are still susceptible to COVID-19 infection and its potential extreme dangers.


This is why SOCIAL DISTANCING and MASKS
are still so important now.


Yes, this is difficult, and we don’t necessarily see what it accomplishes. But right now, going into the future, Social Distancing and masks are our main lines of defense, for ourselves, our loved ones and our community.

The fact that we are not seeing new cases in Lakewood now means that we have had great Siyata D’Shmaya, and we must be encouraged by this. At the same time,


Our Kehilla is still at great risk.


The main way that our lives will be able to return to the pre-COVID-19 normal days that we knew is when a vaccine is developed that can help create a high enough level of immunity throughout our entire community to protect everyone.

---------------------------------------------------------

In upcoming emails, we hope to, B’ezras HaShem, address many questions people have, including:

If the current situation is safer than before, how does it change the measures we must take to prevent the virus from coming back? How will it make things easier for us?

What about the people who already had the illness?

What about the entire families and our elderly and high-risk loved ones who did not have the illness?

What about going away for Shavuos? Should we? Is it safe?

How can antibody testing help us?

What about camp and summer activities?

Children playing together?

Learning and davening in Shul?

As well as more information about the rare new pediatric condition affecting children.

[Lurker]

Can you please stop playing this card? Can you stop with the yesomim eye staring?

Sure. I use it because you have guys like @Kobe bryent calling for everything to return to normal and "just lock up the at risk people." I use it because you have guys like this:

And for me and my age people and the places where i daven ill accept the risk

I use it because the narrative around NYC is the that the numbers are skewed because most of the deaths were from nursing homes, and we don't really care if the old people die. I use it because it's what has inspired many on here to give generously, because they were touched, because it was pain they felt and could identify with. I use it because I hope that maybe they'll look at their kids, or their friends' kids, and decide that the risks are too great to be throwing all caution to the wind. I can stop. But it just doesn't seem like anyone cares about deaths unless there are orphans. Is that hyperbole? Maybe. But science and facts don't seem to be working, so I'm at a loss as to what will.

If CH, which by and large was great at following social distancing rules now has a significant number of people who are not, maybe let's figure out why that is so we can get people to be safe and prevent a second wave.

I'm all ears.

[Yehuda57]

Sure. I use it because you have guys like @Kobe bryent calling for everything to return to normal and "just lock up the at risk people." I use it because you have guys like this:
I use it because the narrative around NYC is the that the numbers are skewed because most of the deaths were from nursing homes, and we don't really care if the old people die. I use it because it's what has inspired many on here to give generously, because they were touched, because it was pain they felt and could identify with. I use it because I hope that maybe they'll look at their kids, or their friends' kids, and decide that the risks are too great to be throwing all caution to the wind. I can stop. But it just doesn't seem like anyone cares about deaths unless there are orphans. Is that hyperbole? Maybe. But science and facts don't seem to be working, so I'm at a loss as to what will.

So NYC residents who were hit harder than FL, where Crown Heights alone lost some 75 souls (if memory serves) are going to have people being more cavalier than you until they read about your skinny friend? Give me a break.

I'm all ears.

Go back and read my posts

[YitzyS]

http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2020/05/covid19-update-why-we-still-need-social.html

For anyone wondering why I posted this in this thread, it's because I was never good at sorting the trash before dumping it. 

[Lurker]

Go back and read my posts

I'm not finding anything. Point me in the right direction?

[chevron]

Looking at things from a historical perspective is critical.

At one time they had bad drinking water.

I still can't understand how in 2020 there are people who go to the bathroom and do not wash their hands with soap after?!?

And you wonder why I'm worried about going back to shul?

Now that it's any better in the secular world..

[Yard sale]

I don’t get why everyone is arguing about a train that already left the station, at least in Lakewood.

[YitzyS]

I don’t get why everyone is arguing about a train that already left the station, at least in Lakewood.

Its now a question of who is getting fired when/if that train crashes...

[S209]

I don’t get why everyone is arguing about a train that already left the station, at least in Lakewood.

It’s certainly not quite back to normal in most shuls, though we’re definitely on the way back. I approve of the way many of the shuls are doing it.

[Yard sale]

Its now a question of who is getting fired when/if that train crashes...

Since the train already left the station all that’s left is to sit back and see if it crashes. If it’s safe we can give the go ahead to the rest of the trains.

[cholent]

http://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2020/05/covid19-update-why-we-still-need-social.html

Which practice is this from?

[S209]

Which practice is this from?

Kinder Pediatrics (Dr. Fenster)

[ExGingi]

In Israel they are allowing reopening of event halls for up to 1 person per 2 square meters (approximately 21.5 sqft).  Entertainment venues will be allowed to reopen keeping occupancy to 75% or less. If 75% occupancy is 500 people or more - special permission is needed. (additional requirements such as maintaining distancing, masks, questioning for symptoms upon entry etc.)

There's no reason why something similar shouldn't be implemented for shuls in NY/NJ.

[Afrages6]

In Israel they are allowing reopening of event halls for up to 1 person per 2 square meters (approximately 21.5 sqft).  Entertainment venues will be allowed to reopen keeping occupancy to 75% or less. If 75% occupancy is 500 people or more - special permission is needed. (additional requirements such as maintaining distancing, masks, questioning for symptoms upon entry etc.)

There's no reason why something similar shouldn't be implemented for shuls in NY/NJ.

We really can’t compare Israel and NY/NJ. Israel there is no assumption that everyone has the virus because the have traced every infection. In NY we have no clue who does and does not have the virus.

[ExGingi]

We really can’t compare Israel and NY/NJ. Israel there is no assumption that everyone has the virus because the have traced every infection. In NY we have no clue who does and does not have the virus.

You're right, we can't compare. In places like BP, WB and CH everyone knows whether they had the virus or not. And they've been socializing (first with immediate family, but at this point also with extended family and neighbors, and possibly beyond). IMHO there's less of a flare up risk in these communities than in EY.

[Sam Finkelstein]

Apparently California released guidelines for houses of worship which allow up to 25% occupancy till 100 people.

[ExGingi]

Apparently California released guidelines for houses of worship which allow up to 25% occupancy till 100 people.

Anything works better than NY's ridiculous 10 people rule.