Author Topic: Corona virus and your shul  (Read 448774 times)

Offline Lurker

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2960 on: September 21, 2020, 06:30:02 PM »
If they deem it safe then making tfilah btzibur available for everyone for R"H davening should be the aim.

If who deems it safe?
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2961 on: September 21, 2020, 07:07:41 PM »
You're right; we should use our heads. For years and years, whenever someone was sick, especially with anything more serious than a cold, we understood that they should stay home. Employers, schools, shuls, and other gathering places have consistently asked people with strep, bronchitis, flu, and other contagious diseases to stay home to keep others from getting sick. Comes Covid, and all of a sudden we're painting with broad strokes? Something that has the ability to cripple our community's infrastructure and cause actual deaths, and we start looking for loopholes?

If a rov discussed with local doctors and there is both a medical and halachic basis for these decisions, they should be publicized. I'm not saying they don't exist; I've just asked what they are. Crickets.

And please don't throw the Peaceful Protests in here. No one, and I mean NO ONE, has said that anyone who is Covid+ or Covid exposed can or should be at protests. Is there a double standard in public policy? Sure. Asked and answered and it's wrong. But this is not that. This isn't shutting down shuls or schools or stores or even parties. This is keeping sick people at home.
If before Rosh Hashana last year strep was going around and someone asked you if there should be a minyan for people who have strep, I'm quite certain you would say yes without skipping a beat.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline good sam

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2962 on: September 21, 2020, 07:13:29 PM »
If before Rosh Hashana last year strep was going around and someone asked you if there should be a minyan for people who have strep, I'm quite certain you would say yes without skipping a beat.
Not a chance. Covid broke people's brains.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2963 on: September 21, 2020, 07:14:37 PM »
Not a chance.
Would you have told them to daven in the regular minyan?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline good sam

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2964 on: September 21, 2020, 07:16:47 PM »
Would you have told them to daven in the regular minyan?
No way. You stay home if you're sick. Covid broke people's brains
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline aygart

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2965 on: September 21, 2020, 07:18:22 PM »
You're right; we should use our heads. For years and years, whenever someone was sick, especially with anything more serious than a cold, we understood that they should stay home. Employers, schools, shuls, and other gathering places have consistently asked people with strep, bronchitis, flu, and other contagious diseases to stay home to keep others from getting sick. Comes Covid, and all of a sudden we're painting with broad strokes? Something that has the ability to cripple our community's infrastructure and cause actual deaths, and we start looking for loopholes?

If a rov discussed with local doctors and there is both a medical and halachic basis for these decisions, they should be publicized. I'm not saying they don't exist; I've just asked what they are. Crickets.

And please don't throw the Peaceful Protests in here. No one, and I mean NO ONE, has said that anyone who is Covid+ or Covid exposed can or should be at protests. Is there a double standard in public policy? Sure. Asked and answered and it's wrong. But this is not that. This isn't shutting down shuls or schools or stores or even parties. This is keeping sick people at home.
You still haven't described a medical need for it.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Lurker

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2966 on: September 21, 2020, 07:59:51 PM »
You still haven't described a medical need for it.

A medical need for Covid+ people to quarantine?
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2967 on: September 21, 2020, 08:03:16 PM »
If before Rosh Hashana last year strep was going around and someone asked you if there should be a minyan for people who have strep, I'm quite certain you would say yes without skipping a beat.

Strep is not contagious after 24 hours on meds. If they were not on meds, and there was a risk they'd get anyone else sick, they stay home. And strep doesn't do anywhere near the damage Covid does.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2968 on: September 21, 2020, 08:06:10 PM »
Strep is not contagious after 24 hours on meds. If they were not on meds, and there was a risk they'd get anyone else sick, they stay home. And strep doesn't do anywhere near the damage Covid does.
So you agree your rules have exceptions, other feel a covid only minyan on RH is also an exception to your rules.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2969 on: September 21, 2020, 08:08:28 PM »
So you agree your rules have exceptions, other feel a covid only minyan on RH is also an exception to your rules.

Huh? Which part of if you are contagious you stay home had a loophole in it? And these arent "my" rules. They are the UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED MEDICAL PROTOCOLS.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2970 on: September 21, 2020, 08:11:06 PM »
Huh? Which part of if you are contagious you stay home had a loophole in it? And these arent "my" rules. They are the UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED MEDICAL PROTOCOLS.

And strep doesn't do anywhere near the damage Covid does.
I took this to mean you'd be ok with it if we were discussing strep
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2971 on: September 21, 2020, 08:13:39 PM »
I took this to mean you'd be ok with it if we were discussing strep

No, it meant they stay home, and that's with a lesser illness, kal v'chomer Covid.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2972 on: September 21, 2020, 08:16:40 PM »
The only "loophole" I can think of is one where others are not put at any risk, such as a Covid hotel or something extremely isolated like that.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2973 on: September 21, 2020, 08:31:20 PM »
The only "loophole" I can think of is one where others are not put at any risk, such as a Covid hotel or something extremely isolated like that.
Walking outdoors is pretty close to that.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Lurker

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2974 on: September 21, 2020, 08:38:50 PM »
Walking outdoors is pretty close to that.

It's not, and especially not on RH with the amount of foot traffic going to and from shuls.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2975 on: September 21, 2020, 08:40:14 PM »
It's not, and especially not on RH with the amount of foot traffic going to and from shuls.
Show me the science not an everybody says.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2976 on: September 21, 2020, 08:43:13 PM »
Just because they paint in broad strokes doesn't mean everyone should turn their head off. That is how you get people calling everything full lockdown. By discussing with local doctors one can create a protocol for this that has low risk. Why shouldn't a Rov follow that? They can be careless about these protocols when it comes to the Peaceful Protests that are important to them while we can keep to low risk manners of breaking the heilige protocols for what is important to us. Keeping to protocols when the risk is so low is a losing argument. You (and I) keep saying that people should use their heads and not just ignore everything they are told just because some incompetent made crazy rules. This is the flip side of it.

As an aside, I was on the phone with the Chair of Epidemiology at a local hospital who was asked about keeping mikvaos open. He said that he did not see an issue because it was such a brief exposure it was very low risk. For these people to go outside with masks is even lower.

A very big problem exists when you tell/show people that all the rules are meaningless - and yes even COVID+ can even come to shul. People come to their own conclusions and decide what is safe based on some thoroughly debunked article from the Washington Examiner as we've seen time and again during corona. In a vacuum, the decision to have a COVID+ minyan isn't the worst idea; in a community where you teach everyone to disobey the rules, it's a terrible idea.

You still haven't described a medical need for it.

Putting COVID+ with COVID exposed is a medically stupid idea. Even putting exposed with other exposed is not smart. You justify it by comparing to the risk of shuls where we've already convinced everyone to show up without masks, but I don't think we need to compound our mistakes.
Visibly Jewish

Offline aygart

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2977 on: September 21, 2020, 08:52:17 PM »
A very big problem exists when you tell/show people that all the rules are meaningless - and yes even COVID+ can even come to shul. People come to their own conclusions and decide what is safe based on some thoroughly debunked article from the Washington Examiner as we've seen time and again during corona. In a vacuum, the decision to have a COVID+ minyan isn't the worst idea; in a community where you teach everyone to disobey the rules, it's a terrible idea.

Putting COVID+ with COVID exposed is a medically stupid idea. Even putting exposed with other exposed is not smart. You justify it by comparing to the risk of shuls where we've already convinced everyone to show up without masks, but I don't think we need to compound our mistakes.
I did not say most of what you mentioned here.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yelped

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2978 on: September 21, 2020, 08:56:55 PM »
I did not say most of what you mentioned here.
That is true, but he is right in regards to Lakewood.

Offline aygart

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2979 on: September 21, 2020, 08:59:05 PM »
That is true, but he is right in regards to Lakewood.
That boat has unfortunately sailed long ago. Deal with the facts as they are.
Feelings don't care about your facts