Author Topic: Corona virus and your shul  (Read 374431 times)

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #480 on: March 23, 2020, 02:44:57 PM »
the picture above had a juge minyan shabos. shachris was from porches and קריאת התורה they had someone screaming the קריאה and 1 making sure the distancing is kept, and not allowing the kids out.

Did they give out aliyos?

Offline zale

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #481 on: March 23, 2020, 02:45:50 PM »
I've seen one minyan that I - a critic of perverted chumros - was comfortable with its existence. 12-14 individuals who live in houses around a central square all walked out of their homes at predetermined times, and joined the minyan from the front of their own properties. No one was ever within 20 or 30 feet from the next-closest person. The rov of the area, after seeing the setup, gave his approval, given that the minyan remain small and would disband should it grow beyond that very-safe manner. He did not join, though. I assume because he has told most of his neighborhood to daven at home, and he would want to be in the same boat as them.

I think this minyan has a few key necessities:
  • It's held outdoors, with everyone on (or in front of) their own property, so there is no danger of contamination from the chairs/tables/door handles
  • Parents were told not to allow any children to be outside at the time, to avoid children walking back and forth between the adults
  • The distance between each person was 20-40 feet, far enough to keep the virus away, and far enough that even should a journalist show up, there would be no angle in which it would seem that people are too close to each other
  • It's not a gathering, as each person is merely standing in front of their property. Thus, it is not in violation of the law
  • Most importantly, it has the approval of the local rov. Without this, I believe that all justifications would be moot
What do you think about such a minyan. And please don't say "stop being stupid" or some other generic remark. I would like sensible feedback on this minyan.

My opinion is that if our rabbonim of all walks of life have ruled that we need to daven alone, then we need to daven alone.

We criticize women who learn Daf Yomi or put on Tefilin under the guise of "they are not obligated", yet we see no problem with outdoor minyanim when we are not obligated?

Offline Ergel

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #482 on: March 23, 2020, 02:46:21 PM »
What happens on Mo/Th?
Major problem at the outdoor minyan I davened at this morning. Considering not going back :(
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline ah giten

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #483 on: March 23, 2020, 02:48:07 PM »
Did they give out aliyos?
yes. they didn't have 3 ppl standing closely around. just בעל קורא, and עולה.
and they stood as far as possible, covered face with טלית

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #484 on: March 23, 2020, 02:49:57 PM »
yes. they didn't have 3 ppl standing closely around. just בעל קורא, and עולה.
and they stood as far as possible, covered face with טלית
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Offline chevron

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #485 on: March 23, 2020, 02:51:24 PM »
I thought this was funny

Offline chevron

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #486 on: March 23, 2020, 02:52:17 PM »
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Eh they make up the rules as they go...

Offline Dan

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #487 on: March 23, 2020, 02:59:02 PM »
Major problem at the outdoor minyan I davened at this morning. Considering not going back :(
That's what I was afraid of.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ah giten

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #488 on: March 23, 2020, 03:01:25 PM »
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Im not saying its perfect. but its better than what you thought...
let's face it. most people break the rules here and there. My cahier just sneezed on all my gorceries...
But I can't just not go to the grocery.... Correct?
so I guess these people feel the need to break the rule, once a week, for younger poeple, and taking the most precautions possible.
I wouldn't of wanted to be called up, and need to refuse being עולה.

Offline ah giten

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #489 on: March 23, 2020, 03:02:01 PM »
That's what I was afraid of.
we have minyan from porches every day. we don't have a sefer torah.

Offline Yehuda_H

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #490 on: March 23, 2020, 03:35:21 PM »
It's a nice idea. Several problems with "social distance minyanim"

1. Preparation can potentially expose non-participants
(ex. My neighbors grandparents have a sefer torah in their house - when you take it out for the minyanim, you are putting the elderly at risk)

2. Setting a bad example:
Other people see a minyan, and want to join. Or do their own, but without the proper social distancing.

3. Goes against psak
Virtually every single posek in every affected country all around the world are saying "no minyanim at all!" Once you start making exceptions for one, you are inviting other people to make exceptions; and not everyone is going to be as careful as you.

4. Affects other household members
If you are davening on your porch with your neighbors on their porches, you are preventing the people inside your houses from taking socially distant walks etc. Although if early enough I guess that's not really a problem.

All else being equal, if you live in a small bungalow type community, davening with each other and no one else on your front porches while being socially distant, I *guess* you're ok. In larger urban areas, such as NYC (including Boro Park) I can't see this is being feasible. By the time you're three houses away you can't hear anything unless you're shouting.

Offline ah giten

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #491 on: March 23, 2020, 03:37:50 PM »
 By the time you're three houses away you can't hear anything unless you're shouting.
[/quote]
backyard. works great.

Offline lakewood34

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #492 on: March 23, 2020, 03:49:41 PM »
Major problem at the outdoor minyan I davened at this morning. Considering not going back :(

WHAt problem halachic problem or social distancing problem

Offline Yehuda_H

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #493 on: March 23, 2020, 03:52:22 PM »
By the time you're three houses away you can't hear anything unless you're shouting.

backyard. works great.
Those are pretty rare in Queens and Brooklyn ;)

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #494 on: March 23, 2020, 03:52:59 PM »
WHAt problem halachic problem or social distancing problem
halachic problem
הוראת שעה
["-"]

Offline Ergel

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #495 on: March 23, 2020, 03:59:40 PM »
WHAt problem halachic problem or social distancing problem
Social distancing
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Ergel

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #496 on: March 23, 2020, 04:00:05 PM »
Seems like with the new rules, it's irrelevant
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #497 on: March 23, 2020, 04:14:33 PM »
3. Goes against psak
Virtually every single posek in every affected country all around the world are saying "no minyanim at all!" Once you start making exceptions for one, you are inviting other people to make exceptions; and not everyone is going to be as careful as you.
Listening to the recording of Rav Simcha Bunim Cohen that was circulated, he implies that this situation would be okay, as he ties minyanim specifically to gatherings. I'm not saying for sure, but it could be that this would not be included in his message.

Offline YitzyS

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Offline YitzyS

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #499 on: March 24, 2020, 02:47:58 PM »
https://twitter.com/jacobkornbluh/status/1240079233805942784

https://twitter.com/GutnickHershy/status/1240088502844493829
The minyan I saw was more spread out than these, and each person was davening on their property, so they didn't have to pass each other on the way in or out.