Author Topic: Corona virus and your shul  (Read 149981 times)

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #735 on: March 30, 2020, 06:05:23 PM »
You forgot the second half of the quote "if you don't believe them, you are a kofer"
Correct. i didnt think this sophisticated crowd needed me to finish a well know vort.  ;D

 So somewhere in between is a good balance.

 So when you look in the mirror after this is all over and you didnt go to a minyan and followed psak halacha does that make you a bad Jew? NO. Does that make you someone who wasnt moiser nefesh for a mitzvah? No.

My whole point is that this vision that has been cultivated in these biographies of what mesrius nefesh looks/looked like is now coming home to roost in what is clearly not a situation that requires mesirus nefesh. Everyone wants to look in the mirror and see themselves as having done the right thing. The right thing is not to be doing something that has been banned. Going lifnim meshuras hadin in tying to circumvent the ban is not mesirus nefesh. Someone please post the quote for our resident shabbos goy about fooling our G-d   
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Offline ltttc

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #736 on: March 30, 2020, 06:15:46 PM »
Okay ladies and gents, I don't want to have to babysit this thread and its posters. Please refrain from ad hominem attacks, and don't name individuals or communities.

Thank you.
+100

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #737 on: March 30, 2020, 06:17:44 PM »
https://col.org.il/news/123927

Minyan in EY of COVID-19 positive people offering to say Kaddish for others.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline S209

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #738 on: March 30, 2020, 07:07:44 PM »
Moreover, if the attacks are on a religion, piety is understandable. In this case, it's an external force.
This is the main point people are not understanding. There is a major difference between shaas hashmad and shaas hamageifa. Thatís why I actually do understand some people in Meah Shearim, they believe itís just a ruse by the Tzionim. But who do you think youíre getting by being machmir now?
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #739 on: March 30, 2020, 07:31:33 PM »
This is the main point people are not understanding. There is a major difference between shaas hashmad and shaas hamageifa. Thatís why I actually do understand some people in Meah Shearim, they believe itís just a ruse by the Tzionim. But who do you think youíre getting by being machmir now?
I think this is a good point, but it is worded wrong. There is not necessarily a difference between shaas hashmad and shaas hamageifa (unless it has a din of mesiras nefesh in a very literal sense). At both times one should be pious. The difference is that what constitutes piety in he former situation, is not pious in the latter situation. People need to realize that staying home and not making minyanim is avodas Hashem, because of pikuach nefesh, sakana of aiva and ועשיתה ככל אשר יורוך (even if you think you are "smart" enough to know how to bypass the first two concerns)

Offline chevron

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #740 on: March 30, 2020, 08:08:33 PM »
This is the main point people are not understanding. There is a major difference between shaas hashmad and shaas hamageifa. Thatís why I actually do understand some people in Meah Shearim, they believe itís just a ruse by the Tzionim. But who do you think youíre getting by being machmir now?

So this is a different problem, part of that has to do with being sheltered.

Again I'm not attacking anybody's way of life or derech..

It's why I read the NY times,

It's also the problem with the yellow flag guys in crown heights.


Offline chevron

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Offline ari3

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #742 on: March 31, 2020, 12:27:28 AM »
So this is a different problem, part of that has to do with being sheltered.

Again I'm not attacking anybody's way of life or derech..

It's why I read the NY times,

It's also the problem with the yellow flag guys in crown heights.
When all you hear from someone is continuous criticism of rabbonim and of people davening with a minyan when they should not be one starts to wonder if there is an underlying disdain for these people and not just being so concerned about his fellow jews. Do we have a cat or a housewife here?

Offline chevron

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #743 on: March 31, 2020, 12:59:12 AM »
When all you hear from someone is continuous criticism of rabbonim and of people davening with a minyan when they should not be one starts to wonder if there is an underlying disdain for these people and not just being so concerned about his fellow jews. Do we have a cat or a housewife here?

Take your pilpul and shove it ;)

If there was an underlying disdain, the mods would have banned me.... @jj1000  knows who and what I'm dealing with.

Yes absolutely I get ahead of myself.. have you spoken to wife's of doctors working 18 hours a day who don't know when they will next if ever see their husband ?

Agenda!! Oh this guy hates minyans.. spends 10 years building a shull, really hates minyanim...

I have no agenda being being frustrated, beyond feeling and seeing the pain of humans suffering .

I was very lucky that I was able to forge lifelong friendships and relationships with some of the top doctors in the world.

Their feelings, fears, emotions etc are what I project here.

I don't care if I'm being baited or mocked, it's a message of urgency I'm preaching.


Offline chevron

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #744 on: March 31, 2020, 01:12:14 AM »
When all you hear from someone is continuous criticism of rabbonim and of people davening with a minyan when they should not be one starts to wonder if there is an underlying disdain for these people and not just being so concerned about his fellow jews. Do we have a cat or a housewife here?

Also what I wrote that you quoted has nothing to do with agendas It has entirely to do with what people perceive is going on.

As was mentioned, in meah sheaarim they see this a clash with the Medina

Yerushalayim had many plauges over time as @hvaces42  very well stated, just read legends of Jerusalem or many other such books.

in some circumstances we are actually criticizing people who know better but refuses to listen

In other cases people just simply are not seeing the whole picture this has nothing to do with them It's just the circumstances.. just as the fire burns in them, the fire burns in me

I see the directive by hashem "v'chaim bahem" you need to be alive to do the mitzvahs

It's a mitzvas asei mi'deoraisai to do all one can to stay alive (see rambam regarding one who can save his life but instead insists on dying Al Kiddush hashem)

So that people miss minyan for 6 months and are then zoche to 60 more years of minyan.

Does that make me so terrible?

And to go to minyan, get sick and not be able to eat matza, where's the logic in that?!! It's hepech kol hatorah!

I keep getting criticized by people who claim I feel I'm smarter than rabbanim

Are you smarter than God? The Torah says "vehigadata levincha" How are you going to tell your children the story of yetzias mitzraim while in ICU..

Offline Shmobaum

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #745 on: March 31, 2020, 01:18:04 AM »
@chevron these ppl arguing with you gotta be brain dead... The rabbanim I know such as Rav Mechel Silber and Rav Asher Weiss all said that whoever leaves his house when he needs to be quarantined is a murderer!!! So my advice to you is ignore these wall bangers

Then theyíll wonder how come theyíre kids donít have respect for Chachomim...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 01:41:26 AM by Shmobaum »

Offline Chapshnell

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #746 on: March 31, 2020, 01:24:13 AM »
Also what I wrote that you quoted has nothing to do with agendas It has entirely to do with what people perceive is going on.

As was mentioned, in meah sheaarim they see this a clash with the Medina

Yerushalayim had many plauges over time as @hvaces42  very well stated, just read legends of Jerusalem or many other such books.

in some circumstances we are actually criticizing people who know better but refuses to listen

In other cases people just simply are not seeing the whole picture this has nothing to do with them It's just the circumstances.. just as the fire burns in them, the fire burns in me

I see the directive by hashem "v'chaim bahem" you need to be alive to do the mitzvahs

It's a mitzvas asei mi'deoraisai to do all one can to stay alive (see rambam regarding one who can save his life but instead insists on dying Al Kiddush hashem)

So that people miss minyan for 6 months and are then zoche to 60 more years of minyan.

Does that make me so terrible?

And to go to minyan, get sick and not be able to eat matza, where's the logic in that?!! It's hepech kol hatorah!

I keep getting criticized by people who claim I feel I'm smarter than rabbanim

Are you smarter than God? The Torah says "vehigadata levincha" How are you going to tell your children the story of yetzias mitzraim while in ICU..

Thank you

Offline Shmobaum

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #747 on: March 31, 2020, 01:40:12 AM »
The only solace I have is that this is what the gemara means - בעוקבתא דמשיחא חוצפא יסגי...

Offline chevron

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #748 on: March 31, 2020, 02:18:02 AM »
The only solace I have is that this is what the gemara means - בעוקבתא דמשיחא חוצפא יסגי...

What, that they no longer will listen to the rabbanim?

I guess, I sure hope techiyas hameisim comes soon, we will be out of live ones

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #749 on: March 31, 2020, 07:43:13 AM »
Take your pilpul and shove it ;)

If there was an underlying disdain, the mods would have banned me.... @jj1000  knows who and what I'm dealing with.

Yes absolutely I get ahead of myself.. have you spoken to wife's of doctors working 18 hours a day who don't know when they will next if ever see their husband ?

Agenda!! Oh this guy hates minyans.. spends 10 years building a shull, really hates minyanim...

I have no agenda being being frustrated, beyond feeling and seeing the pain of humans suffering .

I was very lucky that I was able to forge lifelong friendships and relationships with some of the top doctors in the world.

Their feelings, fears, emotions etc are what I project here.

I don't care if I'm being baited or mocked, it's a message of urgency I'm preaching.
This forum is hardly a religious one, so no one cares what you believe or who you hate. But just as the non-Jews on this tread don't try to peddle their religion to the Jews, and vice versa, it is wrong to rant about rabbonim when the vast majority of this thread will get very offended by it.
That's my opinion. Take it or leave it.