Author Topic: Corona virus and your shul  (Read 149707 times)

Offline zh cohen

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Offline RewardsAddict

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #391 on: March 19, 2020, 12:48:18 PM »
Yesterday someone proudly told me they didn't have a single case in KJ...
Of course they didnt. It takes two days for the tests to come back.

Offline chevron

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Online EliJelly

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #393 on: March 19, 2020, 12:55:57 PM »
Yesterday someone proudly told me they didn't have a single case in KJ...
From Dr. Zelinka, A long time practitioner in KJ.
https://ahblicklive.com/post.php?id=1863

Online skyguy918

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #394 on: March 19, 2020, 01:09:57 PM »
https://vosizneias.com/2020/03/19/dr-ditchek-declares-dont-go-to-shul-if-you-go-you-are-a-sinner-and-potential-murderer/
Wow, was gonna comment on what a dumpster fire the comments are (as usual), but there's a gem in there too, with some interesting mareh mekomos:
Quote
Physician March 19, 2020 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm

Dr. Ditchek’s statement is in line with what world-renowned medical experts have been saying.

I was a resident when Dr. Ditchek was chief resident at SUNY Downstate. He is very bright. I trust him.

I know Rabbi Aaron Glatt MD, an infectious disease expert who was one of the brightest fellows at SUNY Downstate in the 1980s, and became a national expert in infectious diseases. I trust him.

I did a rotation in 1987 at the National Institutes of Health under Anthony Fauci decades ago. He is one of the best infectious disease experts in the world. I trust him.

I have watched a recent interview with Dr. W. Ian Lipkin, a world-renowned epidemiologist. I trust him.

I have studied medical halacha for decades, including at the annual Yarchei Kallah on Medical Halacha [www.j-c-r.org], which has featured the most prominent halachic authorities, and this sugya has been covered at length; indeed, there are clear-cut marei mekomos on this.

For example, see:

Baba Kamma 60b, including the Rashash, and see Shmiras haNefesh, perek 184, for a relatively lengthy discussion about plague, citing the Remo, Mishnah Berura, and other sources; see also Rav Tvzi Gutman’s chapter on rodef in Arzei haLevanon, wherein he classifies an unintentional person who endangers others as a rodef who may be stopped via extreme means; see Rav Akiva Eiger’s teshuva on the plague in 1831, and the harsh measures he took to stop the plague, earning him commendation by the King of Prussia.

This plague is unique in history.

It is apparently much more deadly than seasonal flu [which typically kills up to 300,000 people every year]. Data so far suggest this virus can kill at least 10 times and perhaps 35 times that number, ie 10 million people. Furthermore, it can kills over 20% of elderly people who contract it, and 5% or more of individuals with medical conditions like heart disease, lung disease, and diabetes.

After someone contracts the virus, he/she may not show any symptoms for several days, perhaps up to 2 weeks. During that time, anyone who comes within several feet of that person, as well as someone who may touch an item or counter-top which the carrier has touched, can get infected.

As noted, going to any crowded location, such as a supermarket, can expose dozens of people to the virus.

Each infected person typically infects 2 or more others. Do the math, and you’ll see that someone who goes to a large minyan indoors will almost certainly infect several other people, these will infect several other people, and within 10 days or so one person may have caused infections in well over 100 people.

These are the facts as we know them.

Once informed of the facts during a White House conference call, over a dozen chassidic rebbes took action [Satmar Rebbe, Gerrer Rebbe, Belzer Rebbe, etc], essentially closing their shuls and almost all yeshivas].

The Eidah Chareidis is working with the State of Israel to deal with this.

This is a worldwide crisis, with international experts trying to prevent what has happened in countries like Italy, where a lackadaisical response has led to the death of thousands.

What is the danger? With such high numbers of people becoming sick, hospitals may be overwhelmed. There are simply not enough ICU beds nor enough ventilators for the number of people expected at present to become seriously ill. Ask people working in hospitals or ask Hatzolah members to verify the increasing number of members of our community who have to be hospitalized.

When many people do not follow directives, the ratio will only grow, and more people will die, chas v’sholom.

Is it worth it for people to die because you want to go to minyan?

If someone needs food, there are people who are not infected or who have recovered who might be able to help. There are delivery services. Food is a necessity to stay alive. Davening in a minyan is not a necessity to stay alive. We would not steal food from someone to stay alive, would we? Yet, we are willing to cause the death of someone so that we can go to a minyan?

Finally, articles in the NY Times about supposed defiance by “the” chassidic community have gone viral. Millions of people are being taught that frum Jews do not care about their very lives, and are willfully spreadling a fatal disease. This is beyond a chillul HaShem. This is creating a sakanah for Yidden that makes the phrase ‘mipnai aivah” inadequate, and recall that we are mechalel Shabbos mipnai aivah.

Don’t let speculation, ignorance or a false frumkeit [see Alei Shor on frumkeit] stand in the way of protecting your life, the lives of your friends and neighbors, and the lives of our elderly and those with medical conditions.

Offline shwarmabob

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #395 on: March 19, 2020, 01:51:32 PM »

Online ExGingi

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #396 on: March 19, 2020, 02:30:54 PM »
Has anyone heard any guidance about what happens to קריאת התורה of ויקהל-פקודי and פרשת החודש? Will they be lumped together with ויקרא (assuming by then we will be allowed to congregate)?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online chbochur

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #397 on: March 19, 2020, 02:36:27 PM »
Has anyone heard any guidance about what happens to קריאת התורה of ויקהל-פקודי and פרשת החודש? Will they be lumped together with ויקרא (assuming by then we will be allowed to congregate)?
From your local rabbonim
https://asktherav.com/tashlumin-of-krias-hatorah-due-to-the-coronavirus-outbreak-forcing-shuls-to-close/

Offline Sam Finkelstein

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #398 on: March 19, 2020, 03:53:25 PM »
Shul next door just sent out another text that they're trying to arrange mincha this afternoon. What do these people think they're doing??
Formula for success: rise early, work hard, strike oil. –J. Paul Getty

Offline YaDrebin95

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #399 on: March 19, 2020, 04:10:25 PM »
Has anyone heard any guidance about what happens to קריאת התורה of ויקהל-פקודי and פרשת החודש? Will they be lumped together with ויקרא (assuming by then we will be allowed to congregate)?

I received this on a WhatsApp chat, written by R' Kelinman:

Please be aware of the following halachic considerations which arise in this unique situation (reviewed by Maran Harav Shmuel Kamenetsky, Shlita).
 
1. It is preferable daven shacharis k’vasikin (some poskim compare the zechus of tefilla k’vasikin to tefila b’tzibbur).
 
2. As there are no time constraints and no need to keep up with a minyan, you should say Korbanos including pittum haketores - especially during this precarious time.
 
3. It is preferable to daven shmone esrei by a wall. In general, one should daven in a quiet, designated place, with shoes & proper attire, as is appropriate for kavod hatefilla. Remember - WE NEED THE TEFILLOS NOW MORE THAN EVER.
 
4. Tachnun is to be said seated, but without nefilas apayim.
 
5. Since you will be davening b’yechidus, once Z’man Mincha K’tana has arrived, eating more than 2 k’zaysim of mezonos, engaging in work or napping, is forbidden, until you daven Mincha. If you appoint a shomer to remind you, then you may eat & work.
 
6. Upon Tzeis Hakochavim, eating more than 2 k’zaysim of mezonos, engaging in work or napping, is forbidden, until you say k’rias shma & daven Maariv. If you appoint a shomer to remind you, then you may eat & work.
 
7. On Shabbos you should read the Parsha & Haftorah from a Chumash. This can count as one of the two times of Mikra for the obligation of Shnayim Mikra V’echad Targum.
 
8. On Shabbos you should only say the Yekum Purkan which pertains to the individual, not the one pertaining to the tzibbur.
 
9. On Shabbos Mincha you should say “v’ani tefilasi etc.” even though there is no k’rias hatorah.
 
Wishing everyone all the best, & with tefillos for yeshuas Hashem b’karov,
 
Daniel Osher Kleinman

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #400 on: March 19, 2020, 04:17:05 PM »
@dealfinder11 will tell you that it's because they closed the shuls and yeshivas...

We all got doomed by purim. And head-in-the-sand mentality. Clothing stores were jammed as of yesterday. I spoke to a mohel today who told me he had 3 brissim today. @ one of them, it was business as usual. Hashem yishmor. Let's hope there is some substance behind this potential cure.

To be clear, i was never dismissive of the need to take measures to prevent the disease. I personally have been ahead of the curve in Lakewood (though admittedly and unfortunately that's not saying much). 

Online good sam

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #401 on: March 19, 2020, 04:20:09 PM »
Some other important things to keep in mind:

Don't daven maariv before tzeis.
Don't say baruch hashem leolam by maariv.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #402 on: March 19, 2020, 04:54:19 PM »
Some other important things to keep in mind:

Don't daven maariv before tzeis.
Don't say baruch hashem leolam by maariv.
Source for #2?

AYLOR because there are different shitos, the post above says to say tachnun without nefilas apayim, however R' Moshe holds not to say tachnum unless it's in a shul or a minyan kavuah

Paging @aygart
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Tomy

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #403 on: March 19, 2020, 04:58:48 PM »
The reason they did so is because ppl were going to the 770 backyard and it was also full. They are closing the main dorm for bochurim from Monday on, hopefully they will all go back to Israel (quarantined).

Why you seem so angry at chabad students?

Offline israshot

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Re: Corona virus and your shull
« Reply #404 on: March 19, 2020, 05:28:08 PM »
Why you seem so angry at chabad students?
Chabad students are perfectly fine in general. Some of them didn't follow the rules because of their personal believes. I'm writing 'hopefully' because they can't technically stay all day in a small room on their bed (they have nowhere else to be), they are involuntary spreading the virus even more. By being in Israel with their families, they can have a proper quarantine or any special care they need.