Author Topic: Corona virus and your shul  (Read 368798 times)

Offline simple26

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1040 on: April 17, 2020, 04:13:56 PM »
What bad hefseidim happened during the ban that it needed to be revoked?
from what I understand people joined IN houses instead of porches

Offline Luvtotravel

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1041 on: April 17, 2020, 04:14:46 PM »
New letter from the Lakewood Poskim attached
english synopsis?
Don't wait for the perfect moment; take the moment and make it perfect.

Offline aygart

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1042 on: April 17, 2020, 04:17:17 PM »
english synopsis?
Make porch minyanim if EWVERYONE keeps to the exact guidlines mentioned (stayin in their OWN private porch and the like) and that the shliach tzibur should stop if anyone not following.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yelped

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1043 on: April 17, 2020, 04:21:37 PM »
What bad hefseidim happened during the ban that it needed to be revoked?
Same question here. Davening past the Zman is not as bad as Pikiach Nefesh, so it can't be that.

Offline Yehuda57

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Offline KSMH

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1045 on: April 17, 2020, 04:43:13 PM »
New letter from the Lakewood Poskim attached
Looks like many more Rabonim signed on this one than the ones in the past. Intrestesting!

Is there a reason why Rabbi Spitzer added his own line at the end?

Now this letter has been released, Rabbi Spitzer was Matur Minyanim on porches all along.

Its past due for people to realize there are many different opinions in Halachik Matters.
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline Shmobaum

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1046 on: April 17, 2020, 04:50:08 PM »
Looks like many more Rabonim signed on this one than the ones in the past. Intrestesting!

Is there a reason why Rabbi Spitzer added his own line at the end?

Now this letter has been released, Rabbi Spitzer was Matur Minyanim on porches all along.

Its past due for people to realize there are many different opinions in Halachik Matters.
Dayan Spitzer davened in his home this yom tov by the screen door to his porch

Offline KSMH

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1047 on: April 17, 2020, 04:51:19 PM »
Dayan Spitzer davened in his home this yom tov by the screen door to his porch
I think this was due to the original letter before YT.
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline Shmobaum

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1048 on: April 17, 2020, 04:52:57 PM »
I think this was due to the original letter before YT.
Correct. Now Rabbi Chaim Meir Roth Shlit”a also said today that porch minyanim are kosher.

Offline Dan

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1049 on: April 17, 2020, 04:54:06 PM »
Its past due for people to realize there are many different opinions in Halachik Matters.
This is very different than the porch minyanim that have been talked about until now.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline KSMH

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1050 on: April 17, 2020, 04:54:56 PM »
Correct. Now Rabbi Chaim Meir Roth Shlit”a also said today that porch minyanim are kosher.
Nice to hear what I've been posting is accurate.

There was tremendous pressure on some to rethink thier pisakim, on both sides of the isle. It's a long story so it's for a verbal discussion, no time to write.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 04:59:19 PM by KSMH »
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline Crazy tools

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1051 on: April 17, 2020, 04:56:43 PM »
English version
I still don't see how this helps for Aiva, the whole reason why they assured was because of Aiva and stupid people and never because of legality. I dont understand how this changes anything besides make some people look they were forced into making the first letter ...

Offline Dan

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1052 on: April 17, 2020, 05:03:55 PM »
English version
I still don't see how this helps for Aiva, the whole reason why they assured was because of Aiva and stupid people and never because of legality. I dont understand how this changes anything besides make some people look they were forced into making the first letter ...
If everyone follows those rules, where is the aiva?
But like you said, it's probably unlikely that people won't bend the rules, which is a sakana and aiva problem. That slippery slope argument was the reason for the original psak.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Crazy tools

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1053 on: April 17, 2020, 05:14:28 PM »
If everyone follows those rules, where is the aiva?
But like you said, it's probably unlikely that people won't bend the rules, which is a sakana and aiva problem. That slippery slope argument was the reason for the original psak.
The way I understand the Aiva problem was not that the anti semites would see 10 people on porches and be ok with it but the 2 in a parking lot were the problem.
Even if all 10 are on their porches just like this letter suggests the fact that they are wrapped in their Tallis is what's causing the issue.
Correct that the original set of rules was made because it's a slippery slope. Maybe now that it's public with a clear set of regulations will help as the minyan goers will feel empowered to kick the other guy away.
In my opinion either the first letter was never about Aiva or now they said heck with Aiva as I don't see how this takes care of the issue.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1054 on: April 17, 2020, 05:14:47 PM »
If everyone follows those rules, where is the aiva?
But like you said, it's probably unlikely that people won't bend the rules, which is a sakana and aiva problem. That slippery slope argument was the reason for the original psak.
So let me see if I have this right. Hatzolah can respond to an emergency call on shabbos to a sofeik pikuach nefesh even if you know its a goy because of aiva. We can have minyanim, in front of a goy's house (this is going on on my block every minyan and has caused the goy to come out cursing and call the police several times) and we dont worry about aiva. What is going on in Boro Park is not porch minyanim It is street minyanim with people congregating from half a block away standing six feet apart sometimes. Strolling back and forth most times. Congregating way less than 6 feet when there is kriyas hatorah. But @KSMH was right all along. I wish I could video what goes on here and what went on here all yom tov.

On my block alone 3 neighbors lost their fathers (one of whom davened outside with a minyan and has his bar mitzvah age kids strolling all over the block), one lost his brother (He serves as baal tefillah of the second minyan on the block that goes on at the same time as the first one) and an old lady died at home this morning from presumed COVID.  We also have sectarian minyanim...Gur chasidim, whose Rebbe has by all accounts been quarantined for at least 4 weeks davening alone insist on davening with their own minyan becuase "we dont say all the things that are said by other people."

THIS IS JUST SHEER INSANITY!!!
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1055 on: April 17, 2020, 05:15:38 PM »
Will the truth come out how this administration made blunder after blunder?
["-"]

Offline Dan

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1056 on: April 17, 2020, 05:19:07 PM »
So let me see if I have this right. Hatzolah can respond to an emergency call on shabbos to a sofeik pikuach nefesh even if you know its a goy because of aiva. We can have minyanim, in front of a goy's house (this is going on on my block every minyan and has caused the goy to come out cursing and call the police several times) and we dont worry about aiva. What is going on in Boro Park is not porch minyanim It is street minyanim with people congregating from half a block away standing six feet apart sometimes. Strolling back and forth most times. Congregating way less than 6 feet when there is kriyas hatorah. But @KSMH was right all along. I wish I could video what goes on here and what went on here all yom tov.

On my block alone 3 neighbors lost their fathers (one of whom davened outside with a minyan and has his bar mitzvah age kids strolling all over the block), one lost his brother (He serves as baal tefillah of the second minyan on the block that goes on at the same time as the first one) and an old lady died at home this morning from presumed COVID.  We also have sectarian minyanim...Gur chasidim, whose Rebbe has by all accounts been quarantined for at least 4 weeks davening alone insist on davening with their own minyan becuase "we dont say all the things that are said by other people."

THIS IS JUST SHEER INSANITY!!!
Clearly that's insanity.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1057 on: April 17, 2020, 05:20:39 PM »
Clearly that's insanity.
Obviously the Rabbanim got it wrong...
Will the truth come out how this administration made blunder after blunder?
Fair warning - Any PMs sent in response to forum posts are fair game for ridicule in public.

Offline aygart

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1058 on: April 17, 2020, 05:21:59 PM »
Nice to hear what I've been posting is accurate.

There was tremendous pressure on some to rethink thier pisakim, on both sides of the isle. It's a long story so it's for a verbal discussion, no time to write.


For the record, I did not discuss
So let me see if I have this right. Hatzolah can respond to an emergency call on shabbos to a sofeik pikuach nefesh even if you know its a goy because of aiva. We can have minyanim, in front of a goy's house (this is going on on my block every minyan and has caused the goy to come out cursing and call the police several times) and we dont worry about aiva. What is going on in Boro Park is not porch minyanim It is street minyanim with people congregating from half a block away standing six feet apart sometimes. Strolling back and forth most times. Congregating way less than 6 feet when there is kriyas hatorah. But @KSMH was right all along. I wish I could video what goes on here and what went on here all yom tov.

On my block alone 3 neighbors lost their fathers (one of whom davened outside with a minyan and has his bar mitzvah age kids strolling all over the block), one lost his brother (He serves as baal tefillah of the second minyan on the block that goes on at the same time as the first one) and an old lady died at home this morning from presumed COVID.  We also have sectarian minyanim...Gur chasidim, whose Rebbe has by all accounts been quarantined for at least 4 weeks davening alone insist on davening with their own minyan becuase "we dont say all the things that are said by other people."

THIS IS JUST SHEER INSANITY!!!
@KSMH do you really not see the difference between the 2? There needed to be the blanket to hopefully ensure keeping to guidlines. There are developments where the Rov became a policeman keep it to everyone only on porches. There were others where the Rov had stopped it sionce it became apparent that the porch only rule couldn't be enforced. If it can be kept to then great! I myself had joined and davened for the amud at a minyan from porches as long as it was kept to. As soon as it was not I left. The issue is where it is not kept to!
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1059 on: April 17, 2020, 05:23:22 PM »
Obviously the Rabbanim got it wrong...
There were definitely blunders on the part of some askonim.
Feelings don't care about your facts