Corona virus and your shul

[Lurker]

Does it matter to anyone that your religion is being portrayed to outsiders as a reckless religion on this subject? Does it matter to anyone when Judaism is compared to other religions on this subject it gets a failing grade? If it doesn't matter then just keep doing what you have been doing.

To most, it does. To others, they just want to point fingers and say, "But Mo-o-om, they're doing it, too! And they're being even worser than us!" We don't accept it from our kids, we most definitely shouldn't accept it from our supposed adults.

[Lurker]

The problem is not really Lakewood (despite the breathless news reports). It's BP and Willi where it's really bad.

Lakewood is not currently the problem, nor have they been for a little bit. But, they were late to the party, especially by the standards of certain members here, and it indisputably cost lives. They deserve credit for turning it around in a truly remarkable way, but they also have blood on their hands for the slow initial response.

[yaakov35]

The problem is not really Lakewood (despite the breathless news reports). It's BP and Willi where it's really bad.

IMO its not that much worse there then monsey, kj or other places. They're just in the public eye,  located in NYC, and are 5 seconds from non Jewish neighborhoods, multiple police precincts, and medial outlets. So by default everything they do will be far more scrutinized then other places. Obviously that does come with a bigger responsibility on their part which they have done very poorly in.

[Dan]

I always wondered why Jews were blamed for the black death.
Always assumed regular anti-semitism, but it makes a little more sense now

There's still plenty of anti-semitism, but we need to do better.

[Lurker]

I always wondered why Jews were blamed for the black death.
Always assumed regular anti-semitism, but it makes a little more sense now

There's still plenty of anti-semitism, but we need to do better.

I think there's a difference between blaming our leaders for deaths in our own communities and blaming "the Jews" for an entire plague. But yes, we can and should do better.

[Yehuda57]

I always wondered why Jews were blamed for the black death.
Always assumed regular anti-semitism, but it makes a little more sense now

There's still plenty of anti-semitism, but we need to do better.

Et tu?

I just can't anymore.

[flyingace]

I always wondered why Jews were blamed for the black death.
Always assumed regular anti-semitism, but it makes a little more sense now

There's still plenty of anti-semitism, but we need to do better.

There was no medical knowledge of disease transmission then. Outsiders, including Jews, were always blamed for poisoning the waters or cursing them. it was anti-Semitism and nothing more. Actually, Jews were perceived as suffering less from the the plague; due to certain halachos that kept Jewish quarters free of waste and dead bodies. It was a perception that may or may not be true, but the facts are that Jews did bathe, wash hands and bury the dead differently than the rest of Europe at the time. Please rethink your comment.

[CountValentine]

I just can't anymore.

Sure you can.   

[flyingace]

Same argument over and over. No one on these forums is gonna change anyone’s mind. Unfortunately only one way that some people’s mind will change, and I don’t wish it on anyone. Long story short, best one can hope for is listen to your Rav.

A member of Bikur Cholim went to a guy that had his mikvah open and asked for a bracha. The guy looks at him like he's nuts! Why you asking me for a bracha? He says you must be a navi, I want a bracha. What? Yup, you know that no one will get sick and die from using your mikva so I want a bracha. The guy closed his mikva.

[Dan]

Et tu?

I just can't anymore.

If things are as @hvaces42 describes, can you really blame people that see that for being angry?

[JMHO]

If things are as @hvaces42 describes

They are.

[flyingace]

If things are as @hvaces42 describes, can you really blame people that see that for being angry?

There's a difference between being angry and blaming them for the disease. The whole city has social distancing problems, but the focus is on the Jews. That's anti-Semitism.

[neveryou]

Does it matter to anyone that your religion is being portrayed to outsiders as a reckless religion on this subject? Does it matter to anyone when Judaism is compared to other religions on this subject it gets a failing grade? If it doesn't matter then just keep doing what you have been doing.

In general since when do we change yiddishkait because of the goyim or how it is portrayed to the goyim?

How do you explain to the goyim that we have to kill every male female and child of amalek? Do you weasel your way out saying that it doesnt really apply anymore?

There's a story of a shliach of the rebbe who was asked on the radio how come people get the death penalty on yiddishkait for certain aveiros, he weaseled his way out by saying in short that on order for a b"d to kill someone you needed 2 witnesses and hasrah and so on, and that any b"d that killed once in 70 years is called a murderes one
At a farbrengen a few weeks after this, the lubavitcher rebbe spoke about it and said that that answer is doesnt answer the question just pushes the question off and the rebbe went on to explain and give an answer and gave a mashal of an astronaut in the middle of his mission in space decided to smoke in the ship, (there's alot more to the answer, you can go look it up)

[israshot]

https://collive.com/minyanim-outside-770-without-chabad-hq-approval/

[yelped]

@neveryou

Ever heard of Aiva? Anyways in this case making Minyanim has zero to do with Yiddishekeit.

[neveryou]

I always wondered why Jews were blamed for the black death.
Always assumed regular anti-semitism, but it makes a little more sense now

There's still plenty of anti-semitism, but we need to do better.

Are those same jew haters that are reporting on the jews calling corona the wuhan virus or the Chinese virus?

We didn't start this virus, the chinese did, they should be getting the hate, not jews

Most of the liberal media won't call it the chinese/wuhan virus bc that's racist but that same media will blame the Jews whenever they could during these times

[Yehuda57]

If things are as @hvaces42 describes, can you really blame people that see that for being angry?

Oy. I don't have time to break this down the way it should be, but 1) bringing up the black plague and trying to connect to Corona? I expect better from you.

2) he is one person in one neighborhood. The overwhelming majority of Orthodox communities - in the tri state area and across the country - were and are ahead of government regulations.

3) the average person isn't seeing what @hvaces42 is.

4) people are breaking the rules in larger numbers and in more flagrant ways than Orthodox Jews, but for many reasons only we are known about. We get a failing grade, but all the churches that remained open are fine? It's not about "but officer, he was speeding. It's not an excuse. We should see *why* the officer keeps pulling me over and consistently ignores everyone else.

Most egregious is saying that it's Jews' fault. "we need to be better" if one thing. But "maybe blaming Jews for the plague isn't just anti semitism" is quite another. When the virus attacked queens, no one blamed the locals. Same for the Bronx or any other place in NYC. Not because they were practicing social distancing better than us, they weren't. Try figure out why.

I have no issue with pointing out people who are breaking the rules. They should be shamed, fined, whatever it takes. But for that to turn in to sweeping generalizations? No.

(why does it feel like I've written the same piece 1800 times on this forum?)

[yelped]

Are those same jew haters that are reporting on the jews calling corona the wuhan virus or the Chinese virus?

We didn't start this virus, the chinese did, they should be getting the hate, not jews

Most of the liberal media won't call it the chinese/wuhan virus bc that's racist but that same media will blame the Jews whenever they could during these times

So this is a liberal/conservative issue, I thought you were saying it's a religious issue?

Seems like a lot of the blindfolded people are the ones who listen to some irresponsible pundits who to them everything is stinking politics.

[hvaces42]

In general since when do we change yiddishkait because of the goyim or how it is portrayed to the goyim?

Having been a Hatzolah member who was Mechalel Shabbos for goyim because of Aiva I think maybe I have a little to contribute to that conversation. Again...we are mechalel SHABBOS, YOM KIPPUR etc for goyim because of Aiva...we can surely stop your minyan for it. You are absolutely clueless!

If things are as @hvaces42 describes, can you really blame people that see that for being angry?

I will hopefully have video evidence sometime next week.

[Yehuda57]

In general since when do we change yiddishkait because of the goyim or how it is portrayed to the goyim?

*dramatic music*

"What if I told you..."