Corona virus and your shul

[Yard sale]

Oy why do I find stupidity on all the threads.

I’ll agree tznius is not the perfect analogy if you want to quibble with that. Tznius is not really the point. No one is interested in calling anyone out on tznius. The point is the asymmetric response this has evoked.

[yelped]

I’ll agree tznius is not the perfect analogy if you want to quibble with that. Tznius is not really the point. No one is interested in calling anyone out on tznius. The point is the asymmetric response this has evoked.

If they view it as endangering the community, how is the response assymetric?

[yelped]

Very respectful, calling multiple others "stupidity" isn't.

Except when it is.

[ari3]

Does anyone know what exactly happened? Did they make a minyan on shul property? If so it definitely warrants a strong response. If it wasn't on shul property and unaffiliated with the shul then there is room for discussion.

[ari3]

Last I was in Miami/Boca there were people swimming in non tznius attire in pools that were publicly visible ON SHABBOS and no one said boo about giving them an Aliyah. I get that some people aren’t going to listen and a מחאה is often counterproductive; but it’s pretty glaring to pick and choose your issues that give you “complete disgust and revulsion”.

Were they social distancing at the pool?

[Lurker]

I was going to go on a tirade about religion and judging people, but instead, I'll just add one point of context, and leave it be. If you want to cr@p on the Jews of Miami and Boca on Lag Ba'omer of all days, mah tov u'mah na'im.

Century Village is a gated retirement community. You cannot buy a condo there unless you are 55 years old or older. Over 95% of that shul's membership is high risk based on age alone, and it's a very, very large congregation.

[EliJelly]

Century Village is a gated retirement community. You cannot buy a condo there unless you are 55 years old or older. Over 95% of that shul's membership is high risk based on age alone, and it's a very, very large congregation.

Same goes for Century Village in West Palm Beach, except, they do have daily outdoor minyanim with strict SD in place. Of course the arrangers aren't from YI.

[Yard sale]

If they view it as endangering the community, how is the response assymetric?

I was going to go on a tirade about religion and judging people, but instead, I'll just add one point of context, and leave it be. If you want to cr@p on the Jews of Miami and Boca on Lag Ba'omer of all days, mah tov u'mah na'im.

Century Village is a gated retirement community. You cannot buy a condo there unless you are 55 years old or older. Over 95% of that shul's membership is high risk based on age alone, and it's a very, very large congregation.

I’ve davened in FL senior community shuls before. I get it. That being said, the seniors are all supposed to be self quarantining so there is no reason for them to come in contact with the “illegal minyan guys” any more than the rest of the Boca/ Deerfield beach citizenry. The restaurants and lots of retail are now open in the area. Beaches in Boca and Deerfield are opening this week in phase one and we all know how social distanced they are. Are a few guys making an outdoor minyan really going to  singlehandedly “endanger the entire community” when the quarter million residents in the area are in closer social proximity, often indoors? Or is the reason they came out with guns blazing not raw fear of the danger, but rather indignation at the members having flouted shul rules and contravened their enforced closure?

At the end of the day it’s their shul and their policy so

“OTOH it’s their shul ( assuming this is the unanimous opinion of the shul members and not a few extremist pushing their agenda) and if you don’t subscribe to their form of religion maybe it is fair for them to tell you to find someplace else to pray.”

[S209]

Does anyone know what exactly happened? Did they make a minyan on shul property? If so it definitely warrants a strong response. If it wasn't on shul property and unaffiliated with the shul then there is room for discussion.

There’s strong and there’s strong, this seems a bit over the top.

[chevron]

What does your immune system do?
 
Your immune system works to root out germs and other invaders that have no business in your body.
For example, if you inhale a cold virus through your nose, your immune system targets that virus and primes you to recover. It takes time to get over an infection, and sometimes you need medicine to help, but the immune system is the cornerstone of recovery.

If you punch somebody who is 25 years old and in perfect condition it's most likely that they can just walk away from it.

If you punch somebody who is 75 years old with serious medical conditions it might kill them.

Small viral loads to healthy people and the body can basically fight it off.

now here's something that I was talking about today what if somebody never got the virus but had multiple encounters with small loads, could this be why many people would be testing positive for antibodies? It's like they got a vaccine ?

[chevron]

It has nothing to do with being extreme. It's about the fact that members of the shul one was a chazan, another taught daf yomi, went against the Rav's takana!

This is something I don't get, it's ok to go against the Rav when you feel you're a better mora l'dvar halacha?

Avos says "yehi mora rabba k'mora shamayim"

If anything, all this has brought out, is a krumkeit.

Rabbanim who won't listen to doctors

People who won't listen to rabbanim etc.

[aygart]

It has nothing to do with being extreme. It's about the fact that members of the shul one was a chazan, another taught daf yomi, went against the Rav's takana!

This is something I don't get, it's ok to go against the Rav when you feel you're a better mora l'dvar halacha?

Avos says "yehi mora rabba k'mora shamayim"

If anything, all this has brought out, is a krumkeit.

Rabbanim who won't listen to doctors

People who won't listen to rabbanim etc.

If they were prominent members then it is undermining the rabbi and that should not be tolerated.

[EliJelly]

If they were prominent members then it is undermining the rabbi and that should not be tolerated.

Where the minyan was held should be the big factor here.

[Sam Finkelstein]

If they were prominent members then it is undermining the rabbi and that should not be tolerated.

Perhaps in this scenario. However, not a one-size-fits-all principle. There have been pretty disastrous results when prominent members didn't challenge a rabbi when he was actually wrong.

Also, this may have been the wrong way to disagree.

But I wasn't there and don't know the details. Just commenting on the abstract.

[Sam Finkelstein]

Where the minyan was held should be the big factor here.

Shuls do bar members for certain things done as part of private life, such as Chillul Shabbos, forbidden marriages, or refusal to do Milah on their sons. It's in many by-laws.

A public thing that many won't tolerate is undermining the interests of the congregation, but that can be widely interpreted.

[ari3]

It has nothing to do with being extreme. It's about the fact that members of the shul one was a chazan, another taught daf yomi, went against the Rav's takana!

If that was the case I would guess there is a history there and not that one fine morning some prominent members of the kehilla decided to flaunt the Rabbi's decision.

[Yard sale]

It has nothing to do with being extreme. It's about the fact that members of the shul one was a chazan, another taught daf yomi, went against the Rav's takana!

This is something I don't get, it's ok to go against the Rav when you feel you're a better mora l'dvar halacha?

Avos says "yehi mora rabba k'mora shamayim"

If anything, all this has brought out, is a krumkeit.

Rabbanim who won't listen to doctors

People who won't listen to rabbanim etc.

If the chazzan and maggid shiur of the largest Young Israel in the country are not on board, odds are you have an issue with buy in. Were the prominent members of the shul consulted/ given a voice? Or was it strong armed by one group of the shul leadership? If so, some soul searching is in order rather than a sledgehammer.

[aygart]

Perhaps in this scenario. However, not a one-size-fits-all principle. There have been pretty disastrous results when prominent members didn't challenge a rabbi when he was actually wrong.

Also, this may have been the wrong way to disagree.

But I wasn't there and don't know the details. Just commenting on the abstract.

Yes but if they want to keep his authority they need to take a strong stand.

[avromie7]

Where the minyan was held should be the big factor here.

The overwhelming majority of the shuls members are from Century Village. The shul borders with Century Village. The minyan took place in Century Village.

Yes but if they want to keep his authority they need to take a strong stand.

I'm sure this is a big part of it. Most people here don't realize what it's like to be a rabbi in a shul filled with retirees. Many of them have too much time on their hands and unfortunately many people never grow up (lesson for us younger people), they fight and bicker about the dumbest little things like 2 year olds fighting over a lollipop. If the rabbi doesnt put his foot down he's useless.

[EliJelly]

Most people here don't realize what it's like to be a rabbi in a shul filled with retirees. Many of them have too much time on their hands and unfortunately many people never grow up (lesson for us younger people), they fight and bicker about the dumbest little things like 2 year olds fighting over a lollipop. If the rabbi doesnt put his foot down he's useless.

Fair point