Author Topic: Corona virus and your shul  (Read 149453 times)

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1875 on: May 14, 2020, 11:42:48 AM »
Curious what measures they took. How far apart were people, how did they ensure it? Which 10 people got to daven, does everyone do it at different times? We’re windows open? Was davening shortened? How did laining work? Or was it regular, just limited in attendees?

I can understand the fear and concerns we all had a couple of months ago regarding Minyanim and the like, I am curious as to why there is still such scrutiny now, so much more so than every other aspect of life?

Offline S209

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1876 on: May 14, 2020, 11:44:21 AM »
I can understand the fear and concerns we all had a couple of months ago regarding Minyanim and the like, I am curious as to why there is still such scrutiny now, so much more so than every other aspect of life?
Because it’s life threatening to masses of people, which takes precedence to any other area of life?

Why would it be any different than a couple of months ago? Because deaths slowed down, which can easily be attributed to social distancing?
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Offline Euclid

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1877 on: May 14, 2020, 11:58:18 AM »
I can understand the fear and concerns we all had a couple of months ago regarding Minyanim and the like, I am curious as to why there is still such scrutiny now, so much more so than every other aspect of life?
Indoor gatherings with singing and loud talking:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6919e6.htm

TL;DR - 87% of a church choir came down with symptoms after a practice with 1 member who was positive. This was with taking precautions.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1878 on: May 14, 2020, 12:02:24 PM »
Common sense is not dead.

U.S. District Judge Robert Gettlemen rejected their request for an injunction against Pritzker, stating “the Order has nothing to do with suppressing religion and everything to do with reducing infections and saving lives” during the COVID-19 pandemic.

“Plaintiffs’ request for an injunction, and their blatant refusal to follow the mandates of the Order are both ill-founded and selfish. An injunction would risk the lives of plaintiffs’ congregants, as well as the lives of their family members, friends, co-workers and other members of their communities with whom they come in contact,” Gettlemen wrote in a 12-page ruling on Wednesday. “Their interest in communal services cannot and does not outweigh the health and safety of the public.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/another-federal-judge-sides-with-gov-jb-pritzker-rejects-two-churches-challenge-to-stay-at-home-order/ar-BB145bjb?ocid=hplocalnews
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Offline aygart

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1879 on: May 14, 2020, 12:02:31 PM »
Let me fill you in on first hand information that I heard from someone that was part of thy minyan
There was a total of exactly 10 ppl there and everyone was on their own porch.
It was mostly heimish guys and young Isreal feels very threatened by them so they decided that this is the perfect opportunity to get rid of them so they put out this letter. It’s all about politics and has nothing to do with the fact of whether porch minyan should be allowed or not.
I have no information other than what was posted here, but if they were prominent members such as a chazan and someone giving a shiur and they flaunted the Rabbi like this then how many people attended and location are irrelevant.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1880 on: May 14, 2020, 12:28:05 PM »
Curious what measures they took. How far apart were people, how did they ensure it? Which 10 people got to daven, does everyone do it at different times? We’re windows open? Was davening shortened? How did laining work? Or was it regular, just limited in attendees?

Because it’s life threatening to masses of people, which takes precedence to any other area of life?

i understand you are concerned, my question is why are we scrutinizing minaynim more than say grocery shops, hardware stores, office space, airplanes, or a congress testimony?   
Why would it be any different than a couple of months ago? Because deaths slowed down, which can easily be attributed to social distancing?

Why would we lift any restrictions at all? maybe because some people have had Covid19 and tested for antibodies and are resuming life to some degree and that includes davaning with a minyan with SD.

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1881 on: May 14, 2020, 12:32:39 PM »
Common sense is not dead.

U.S. District Judge Robert Gettlemen rejected their request for an injunction against Pritzker, stating “the Order has nothing to do with suppressing religion and everything to do with reducing infections and saving lives” during the COVID-19 pandemic.

“Plaintiffs’ request for an injunction, and their blatant refusal to follow the mandates of the Order are both ill-founded and selfish. An injunction would risk the lives of plaintiffs’ congregants, as well as the lives of their family members, friends, co-workers and other members of their communities with whom they come in contact,” Gettlemen wrote in a 12-page ruling on Wednesday. “Their interest in communal services cannot and does not outweigh the health and safety of the public.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/another-federal-judge-sides-with-gov-jb-pritzker-rejects-two-churches-challenge-to-stay-at-home-order/ar-BB145bjb?ocid=hplocalnews
Elim Romanian Pentecostal Church in Albany Park and Logos Baptist Ministries in Niles had filed a joint lawsuit seeking a temporary restraining order allowing them to hold normal services, arguing Pritzker’s order limiting religious gatherings to no more than 10 people violates their rights to religion and free speech.

Offline reed

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1882 on: May 14, 2020, 12:49:06 PM »
i understand you are concerned, my question is why are we scrutinizing minaynim more than say grocery shops, hardware stores, office space, airplanes, or a congress testimony?   
Why would we lift any restrictions at all? maybe because some people have had Covid19 and tested for antibodies and are resuming life to some degree and that includes davaning with a minyan with SD.

How long are we going to make the what about x argument? Don’t go to groceries or hardware stores either. Rabbis don’t control stores. They can pasken about minyanim. People need food they go to grocery. Rabbi-Dr Glatt has said numerous times that visits to the groceries should be only when needed, very quick and only one person per family. It’s is preferable to get things delivered.

Haven’t the studies showed that only 20% of the population may have anti-bodies? So screw the other 80%? If you think those 80% will be smart enough to stay away from minyanim and Shuls by themselves - after reading this forum and the other “frum” site I am fairly confident in saying they are not.

So what happens? We have more sickness and more deaths. Why? Because we never learn our lesson.

My fatherinlaws shul in Flatbush was open a full two weeks longer than my shul in five towns. So many people got sick and there were deaths from that shul. I told him what is wrong with your shul just shut it. The reply was “the Rav believes in the koach of teffilah betizibur”. I heard they are making plans to reopen their shul very soon.

So this is why we can’t have minyanim yet. People have a very short-term memory and in general seem to be extremely foolish about this. As sad as it is to say, we cannot leave people to their own devices.


Offline chevron

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1883 on: May 14, 2020, 12:54:38 PM »
How long are we going to make the what about x argument? Don’t go to groceries or hardware stores either. Rabbis don’t control stores. They can pasken about minyanim. People need food they go to grocery. Rabbi-Dr Glatt has said numerous times that visits to the groceries should be only when needed, very quick and only one person per family. It’s is preferable to get things delivered.

Haven’t the studies showed that only 20% of the population may have anti-bodies? So screw the other 80%? If you think those 80% will be smart enough to stay away from minyanim and Shuls by themselves - after reading this forum and the other “frum” site I am fairly confident in saying they are not.

So what happens? We have more sickness and more deaths. Why? Because we never learn our lesson.

My fatherinlaws shul in Flatbush was open a full two weeks longer than my shul in five towns. So many people got sick and there were deaths from that shul. I told him what is wrong with your shul just shut it. The reply was “the Rav believes in the koach of teffilah betizibur”. I heard they are making plans to reopen their shul very soon.

So this is why we can’t have minyanim yet. People have a very short-term memory and in general seem to be extremely foolish about this. As sad as it is to say, we cannot leave people to their own devices.

That is what I have been saying for months. But logic is stronger than common sense..

"But oj Simpson got away with murder, what's the big deal j only punched the guy in the face"

Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1884 on: May 14, 2020, 01:55:29 PM »
2. How do you picture this going down? A bunch of guys are hanging around like they always do, when suddenly Jerry has a thought. "Hey Barry, Irv! You know, I actually have yartzeit today! Everyone stay where they are and I'll chap a quick kaddish." ....There's no way this wasn't premeditated. Furthermore, if we can find the time to argue the pros and cons of minyanim here on DDF, you can bet your life this argument has been had ad nauseam on every porch of Century Village.
I know for a fact that at least one of the people specifically called out in the letter already davened and was asked to be metztarif.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1885 on: May 14, 2020, 02:08:43 PM »
Let me fill you in on first hand information that I heard from someone that was part of thy minyan
There was a total of exactly 10 ppl there and everyone was on their own porch.
It was mostly heimish guys and young Isreal feels very threatened by them so they decided that this is the perfect opportunity to get rid of them so they put out this letter. It’s all about politics and has nothing to do with the fact of whether porch minyan should be allowed or not.

I agree it has nothing to do with whether porch minyanim are allowed or not al pi halacha, and everything to do with people thinking that it's ok not to listen to a rav. Frankly, I hate that "heimish guys" has become code for people who have no respect for authority, who get to write their own shulchan aruch, and then blame the repercussions on "politics."

I know for a fact that at least one of the people specifically called out in the letter already davened and was asked to be metztarif.

I don't recall names being used, but the standard stays the same. By enabling the eriuv rav, you've undermined the authority of the rav and disrespected the community.
When you find yourself agreeing with me more often than not, it's time for a cheshbon hanefesh.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1886 on: May 14, 2020, 02:23:14 PM »
I agree it has nothing to do with whether porch minyanim are allowed or not al pi halacha, and everything to do with people thinking that it's ok not to listen to a rav. Frankly, I hate that "heimish guys" has become code for people who have no respect for authority, who get to write their own shulchan aruch, and then blame the repercussions on "politics."

I don't recall names being used, but the standard stays the same. By enabling the eriuv rav, you've undermined the authority of the rav and disrespected the community.
They should definitely be called out, but I think the repercussions are a bit much.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Yitz

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1887 on: May 14, 2020, 02:28:28 PM »


So what happens? We have more sickness and more deaths. Why? Because we never learn our lesson.

I agree with you 100%. I was this past Friday in a cemetery as a relative passed away. I tell everyone that the cemetery was full of fresh graves. Maybe people need to take a visit to see what happens when you are not careful.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1888 on: May 14, 2020, 02:32:01 PM »
They should definitely be called out, but I think the repercussions are a bit much.

I can see why some may have that reaction. I'm looking at it with the assumption that this subject has been intensely debated in that community, as it has in every community. If after all the arguing they still flaunted the rav's decision and in a way that it was public knowledge, I'm not sure the repercussions were unwarranted.
When you find yourself agreeing with me more often than not, it's time for a cheshbon hanefesh.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #1889 on: May 14, 2020, 02:44:20 PM »
I can see why some may have that reaction. I'm looking at it with the assumption that this subject has been intensely debated in that community, as it has in every community. If after all the arguing they still flaunted the rav's decision and in a way that it was public knowledge, I'm not sure the repercussions were unwarranted.
Was the rav asked recently if they can make a minyan? If not and we're relying on the fact that he didn't change since they closed the shul it's very different.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.