Corona virus and your shul

[Sam Finkelstein]

I think the common denominator is someone at the top who's taking it seriously. Look at how it's working out OOT.

Mind you, I’m personally aware of a shul that was planning on keeping restrictions, but in the absence of a rabbi, everything fell apart as soon as too many people showed up.

[bubkiz]

After accounting for the Gabbay and the few that help control the situation, there are only a few more who are allowed in by גורל or other merits. For example, this morning there was a bar-mitzvah bochur there, his father and one grandfather were allowed in. Another grandfather initially came in, but was told to go out despite sitting far away from everyone else.

An exception could not be made for the other grandfather? No one was asked to volunteer their spot for him? 
(You had mentioned elsewhere in the vast expanse of DDF that you had a Chiyuv this week, so giving you the benefit of the doubt.)

[skyguy918]

Bergen County (Rcbc) projected minyan resumption date is 6/4.

See, I consider myself closer to the more cautious position re:minyanim, but I can't understand this. If it's not okay medically/legally right now, how can they project that it will be okay in 2 weeks. And if it is okay medically/legally right now, then what's the hold up? Please don't say logistics, because that's a horrible excuse. Why wouldn't' the logistics be worked out already, given that they've had months to put plans in place?

[aygart]

I think the common denominator is someone at the top who's taking it seriously. Look at how it's working out OOT.

+100000000000000 Opening shul while still being safe is so doable with a bit of effort as long as there is someone on top to make it.

[Sam Finkelstein]

See, I consider myself closer to the more cautious position re:minyanim, but I can't understand this. If it's not okay medically/legally right now, how can they project that it will be okay in 2 weeks. And if it is okay medically/legally right now, then what's the hold up? Please don't say logistics, because that's a horrible excuse. Why wouldn't' the logistics be worked out already, given that they've had months to put plans in place?

They want an extra two weeks to see if the general opening results in a spike.

[ExGingi]

-1. Humans are blessed with an amazing ability to forget and be complacent.

Not sure why you put a -1 there, your statement and my statement aren't mutually exclusive, but rather complement each other.

Before shuls closed down, I was "extreme". I would discard everything I saw in 770's coffee area every time I would walk in, I scolded the people running the place for not making paper towels, tissues and hand sanitizers widely available. But that was definitely a different time. Now you have a situation where everyone you talk to had symptoms to one extent or another (you have to state that you had symptoms and recovered in order to be allowed into 770), people feel (and to some extent - legitimately so) oppressed. People feel they have paid a heavy price, and are being demanded to keep on paying a heavy price in the proper functioning and wellbeing of homes and families. And then comes this ridiculous decree of 10 people, irrespective of shul size. There is no way this doesn't blow up.

[Dan]

Not sure why you put a -1 there, your statement and my statement aren't mutually exclusive, but rather complement each other.

Before shuls closed down, I was "extreme". I would discard everything I saw in 770's coffee area every time I would walk in, I scolded the people running the place for not making paper towels, tissues and hand sanitizers widely available. But that was definitely a different time. Now you have a situation where everyone you talk to had symptoms to one extent or another (you have to state that you had symptoms and recovered in order to be allowed into 770), people feel (and to some extent - legitimately so) oppressed. People feel they have paid a heavy price, and are being demanded to keep on paying a heavy price in the proper functioning and wellbeing of homes and families. And then comes this ridiculous decree of 10 people, irrespective of shul size. There is no way this doesn't blow up.

-1 because it's human nature to let your guard down. I don't think the period of time waited changes that at all.

Symptoms are meaningless. The flu was also going around.
"Meaningful exposure" is meaningless as well.
Proof of antibodies would be more meaningful.

[Ergel]

https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/957191/rabbi-mayer-e-twersky/the-prohibition-to-conduct-minyanim-and-other-gatherings-in-america-at-this-time/

[ExGingi]

"Gabbei, you have to let me in! My DDF bio lists 770 as my location, and I can't lie to all those DDFers..."

That's a superficial way of thinking about it. More likely someone who calls 770 "home" might find a way to get in. אין דבר העומד בפני הרצון.

Will be there for Mincha today too bez"h. Going forward will probably need more easing.

[shaulyaakov]

They want an extra two weeks to see if the general opening results in a spike.

+1.

I also think they are being cautious in not wanting minyanim over Yom Tov.

[ushdadude]

They want an extra two weeks to see if the general opening results in a spike.

Is that a polite way of saying, let the right make all the mistakes and take the heat?

[Iz]

Also, according to some here, those who are waiting longer are just more מחמיר than the others.

[yitzf]

Pretty much full shul and a nice kiddush, not gonna say where! People are soo freakin fedup already

A bunch of Trump fanatics. He says houses of worship are "ess in shul" so they need to have a Kiddush.

https://twitter.com/vivushit/status/1263914176961040385?s=20

[shaulyaakov]

Also, according to some here, those who are waiting longer are just more מחמיר than the others.

Even a Safek pikuach nefesh is docheh (almost) everything. At this point, we're in Safek territory. Rcbc poskim believe that a 2 week positive trend of continued declines will remove the Safek (assuming all future safety protocols are followed).

[Iz]

Even a Safek pikuach nefesh is docheh (almost) everything. At this point, we're in Safek territory. Rcbc poskim believe that a 2 week positive trend of continued declines will remove the Safek (assuming all future safety protocols are followed).

Exactly. They are the מחמירים, and the others are the מקילים. Makes perfect sense.

[avromie7]

Also, according to some here, those who are waiting longer are just more מחמיר than the others.

I'm not getting involved in the discussion, but. I think the question is what is their basis in halacha to be machmir. Chumros without a basis in halacha are not chumros.

[Lurker]

Is that a polite way of saying, let the right make all the mistakes and take the heat?

Why does it have to be political? I'm not right or left, and I identify with Lubavitch. I also posted here a while back that my personal approach for my family would be to wait and see how the country handles this weekend and how our communities fare after Shavuos. Based on what I'm seeing, I don't have great feelings about the effects of either. But to be cautious means to be left?

[Ergel]

I'm not getting involved in the discussion, but. I think the question is what is their basis in halacha to be machmir. Chumros without a basis in halacha are not chumros.

https://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/957191/rabbi-mayer-e-twersky/the-prohibition-to-conduct-minyanim-and-other-gatherings-in-america-at-this-time/

Probably worth it to read it before you bash people

[Lurker]

I'm not getting involved in the discussion, but. I think the question is what is their basis in halacha to be machmir. Chumros without a basis in halacha are not chumros.

According to Rabbi Leibel Shapiro of Miami, a respected Rov in and out of Lubavitch, there is no chiyuv to go to shul if one feels there is a risk of catching this virus. I'm not saying everyone needs to follow his psak, but there is most definitely a basis in halacha.

[ushdadude]

Why does it have to be political? I'm not right or left, and I identify with Lubavitch. I also posted here a while back that my personal approach for my family would be to wait and see how the country handles this weekend and how our communities fare after Shavuos. Based on what I'm seeing, I don't have great feelings about the effects of either. But to be cautious means to be left?

I'm referring to organizations, not individuals.