Author Topic: Corona virus and your shul  (Read 368435 times)

Offline Sam Finkelstein

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Feb 2015
  • Posts: 2936
  • Total likes: 298
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New York, NY
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2500 on: May 24, 2020, 08:05:48 PM »
Since we're using bad driving analogies, here's one for you. The speed limits in NYC, specifically in Brooklyn, make no sense. In fact, scientifically, they are counter-intuitive. So because the leadership got it wrong, and people go over 25 MPH all the time, all the rules should go out the window and drunk driving becomes ok? Don't worry, we can just blame it on the inept politicians. Why blame the people for over-reacting in extreme ways that defy logic? It's human nature, as old as Adam and Chava!

I've long said it's a combination of personal judgment plus enforcement. To use Ocean Parkway as an example, people watch out for the cameras and slow down for them, but otherwise use their own judgment, as is evidenced by the cars going from 34 on one block to 45+ on the next where there's no camera.

So to answer the question, people obviously don't believe in the risks and are therefore acting irresponsibly. Of course some regulations make no sense, but I'm not easily convinced they're all going out the window at the same time.

What's more likely is that people are fed up, don't believe/understand the danger in the first place, and take advantage wherever enforcement is weak.

Formula for success: rise early, work hard, strike oil. –J. Paul Getty

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2501 on: May 24, 2020, 08:15:35 PM »
After seeing how you compare the current situation so many times to Purim, it definitely fits perfectly for Purim.
Well I sure hope not because them people will have blood on their hands but I am definitely nervous that it might be.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yard sale

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2018
  • Posts: 900
  • Total likes: 471
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4891
  • Total likes: 14679
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2503 on: May 24, 2020, 08:18:03 PM »


Since we're using bad driving analogies, here's one for you. The speed limits in NYC, specifically in Brooklyn, make no sense. In fact, scientifically, they are counter-intuitive. So because the leadership got it wrong, and people go over 25 MPH all the time, all the rules should go out the window and drunk driving becomes ok? Don't worry, we can just blame it on the inept politicians. Why blame the people for over-reacting in extreme ways that defy logic? It's human nature, as old as Adam and Chava!

For my health I shouldn't bother, but....

1) You can't call an analogy moronic when someone else makes it, and then toss it out at me yourself. (unless I was the one making the analogy, and I wasn't)

2) Even your flawed analogy is flawed. You're leaping from unreasonable speed limits to drunk driving?

3) There absolutely is plenty of evidence that more relaxed speeding limits improves overall driving quality and reduces accidents, but that's besides the point and I'm not getting into that argument.

4) I didn't say the behavior is justified or correct, I said it's inevitable under the current rules.

You and @S209 are either being deliberately obtuse or are so entrenched in the debate over the past months you aren't understanding what we're saying. I'm making the same point that Aygart and Formerly Ginger have made in this thread. We absolutely cannot have people behaving as they are right now. It's dangerous. But as long as the regulations don't allow for people to resume activities in a safe manner, there isn't a lick we can do about it.

Continued extreme lockdowns are making safe social distancing impossible.


Offline Iz

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2014
  • Posts: 7001
  • Total likes: 460
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 13
    • View Profile

Offline Shmobaum

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 595
  • Total likes: 221
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: National EE, Hertz Presidential, Marriott Gold Elite, Daf Yomi Presidential Platinum Premier
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2505 on: May 24, 2020, 08:40:47 PM »
Really? Any other Lakewooders here to confirm?
I heard otherwise for BP/CH/Willy and KJ.
Fake news. Asked my friend who’s in Hatzalah in Lakewood as well as active in kimball hospital...

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2506 on: May 24, 2020, 08:41:26 PM »
Fake news. Asked my friend who’s in Hatzalah in Lakewood as well as active in kimball hospital...
They wouldn't be going to Kimball
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Moishebatchy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 7278
  • Total likes: 150
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 23
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
  • Programs: Arzei Makolet Platinum, Yossi's Makolet Silver, Yesh! Gold, Rav Kav Dirt
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2507 on: May 24, 2020, 08:41:52 PM »
This morning I went to shacharis elsewhere and ended up davening alone in the ezras nashim due to people not wearing masks. Mincha I tried yet another option that had 27 people reasonably spread out, but with 7 (25%) wearing their masks over their chins or mouths, but not noses. Compared to other communities this may sound okay, but to me, it's not. It's a disgrace to be so cavalier with people's lives, and with shul rules for entry.

I've been telling this to people for a while already... wearing a face mask with your nose sticking out is like putting a diaper on a baby boy and leaving his shmeckel sticking out.

Offline Shmobaum

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 595
  • Total likes: 221
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: National EE, Hertz Presidential, Marriott Gold Elite, Daf Yomi Presidential Platinum Premier
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2508 on: May 24, 2020, 08:43:00 PM »
They wouldn't be going to Kimball
Point is that he’s in the know. Sorry it doesn’t fit your narrative:(

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15618
  • Total likes: 7710
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2509 on: May 24, 2020, 08:44:28 PM »
I've been telling this to people for a while already... wearing a mask over your mouth - but not your nose - is like putting a diaper on a baby boy, and leaving his shmeckel sticking out.
-1

When one sneezes or coughs, do droplets come our of the nose or mouth?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 2863
  • Total likes: 3465
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2510 on: May 24, 2020, 08:45:10 PM »
I have not yet heard a single person say to "keep everyone locked up indefinitely till there is a vaccine or till we die of old age whichever comes first" or even anything close.
I thought the same, until I saw this on DDMS: "I'll wait until this pandemic has ended (23%, 424 Votes)"

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2511 on: May 24, 2020, 08:47:20 PM »
Point is that he’s in the know. Sorry it doesn’t fit your narrative:(
Maybe. I have never said more than reports and I am very happy if there were none. I am not the one who said anything about this. I also have not pushed anything at all about what is happening now. I maybe mentioned it as someone said that...
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Moishebatchy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 7278
  • Total likes: 150
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 23
    • View Profile
  • Location: Jerusalem
  • Programs: Arzei Makolet Platinum, Yossi's Makolet Silver, Yesh! Gold, Rav Kav Dirt
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2512 on: May 24, 2020, 08:47:39 PM »
-1

When one sneezes or coughs, do droplets come our of the nose or mouth?

Obviously, it's not a perfect analogy. But it makes the point fairly well - namely, that you're defeating a huge part of the purpose.

Plus, as far as receiving an infection is concerned, yes - respiratory droplets can enter via the nose.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2513 on: May 24, 2020, 08:48:02 PM »
I thought the same, until I saw this on DDMS: "I'll wait until this pandemic has ended (23%, 424 Votes)"
For themselves or as a public rule? Where did you see that?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yungermanchik

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 2667
  • Total likes: 2047
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Previous Signatures: If you chapped hana'ah from a post, like it; You think you know the answers and things are the way they seem.. it just ain't so -The Rebbe from Lublin-
Re: Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« Reply #2514 on: May 24, 2020, 08:50:21 PM »
The truth is that when i first clicked on this thread I thought It would be about the Hergeshim that people felt being allowed back into the Bais Hashem. Then I realized that most of it is the same bickering I've tried to avoid in the rest of this board. So, I'll share my feelings here: https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=116803.msg2260618#msg2260618
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Offline Shmobaum

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 595
  • Total likes: 221
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: National EE, Hertz Presidential, Marriott Gold Elite, Daf Yomi Presidential Platinum Premier
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2515 on: May 24, 2020, 08:50:30 PM »
Maybe. I have never said more than reports and I am very happy if there were none. I am not the one who said anything about this. I also have not pushed anything at all about what is happening now. I maybe mentioned it as someone said that...
My bad I apologize. It’s sickening when guys here are just unwilling to accept anything positive about this situation.

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 2863
  • Total likes: 3465
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2516 on: May 24, 2020, 08:51:57 PM »
For themselves or as a public rule? Where did you see that?
Hopefully never as a public rule. But this mindset is there.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2517 on: May 24, 2020, 09:03:42 PM »
Hopefully never as a public rule. But this mindset is there.
I can tell you that well over that percentage is in the high-risk category that EVERYONE AGREES should wait it out until the pandemic is totally gone.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2518 on: May 24, 2020, 09:05:57 PM »
My bad I apologize. It’s sickening when guys here are just unwilling to accept anything positive about this situation.
As much as you guys beat up on @S209 and @Lurker they have basically been saying the same thing. They (and I) are frustrated at those who refuse to give any seriousness to the entire thing even after such attitudes have clearly cost lives.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 4911
  • Total likes: 6141
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #2519 on: May 24, 2020, 09:08:39 PM »
Fake news. Asked my friend who’s in Hatzalah in Lakewood as well as active in kimball hospital...
There are most definitely still respiratory distress calls and Code-19 calls, even though there's been no transports.
Like I said, people are seeking medical attention via their doctors before it gets to a point where they need Hatzolah to transport.