Author Topic: Corona virus and your shul  (Read 322530 times)

Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3060 on: September 26, 2020, 11:28:48 PM »
So you are saying that there is no leadership? WHy would that suddenly change now?
Rabbanim were trashed when they came out with the second letter allowing porch minyanim... Can you imagine had they come out in July with guidelines - not to shake hands or hug, no oot guest etc. There would be thousands of people bashing them for allowing simchas to take place etc. There is no leadership cause leadership is trashed! Today Everyone has their opinions and If it a leader goes against what they believe they're done.. So let's not blame any top leadership  - there needs to be a centralized place for every rav in town to get his info and be able to relay it to his shul

Offline Lurker

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3061 on: September 26, 2020, 11:33:19 PM »
Rabbanim were trashed when they came out with the second letter allowing porch minyanim... Can you imagine had they come out in July with guidelines - not to shake hands or hug, no oot guest etc. There would be thousands of people bashing them for allowing simchas to take place etc. There is no leadership cause leadership is trashed! Today Everyone has their opinions and If it a leader goes against what they believe they're done.. So let's not blame any top leadership  - there needs to be a centralized place for every rav in town to get his info and be able to relay it to his shul

So... you're saying there's no leadership.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3062 on: September 26, 2020, 11:43:22 PM »
Rabbanim were trashed when they came out with the second letter allowing porch minyanim... Can you imagine had they come out in July with guidelines - not to shake hands or hug, no oot guest etc. There would be thousands of people bashing them for allowing simchas to take place etc. There is no leadership cause leadership is trashed! Today Everyone has their opinions and If it a leader goes against what they believe they're done.. So let's not blame any top leadership  - there needs to be a centralized place for every rav in town to get his info and be able to relay it to his shul

There is MUCH more to the story than this.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Euclid

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Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3063 on: September 26, 2020, 11:50:00 PM »
There is MUCH more to the story than this.
The politics involved is just heartbreaking, because many people still believe that there's real leadership in town like there was in yesteryear.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3064 on: September 26, 2020, 11:52:38 PM »
The politics involved is just heartbreaking, because many people still believe that there's real leadership in town like there was in yesteryear.
Are there really many people who believe that?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Euclid

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3065 on: September 26, 2020, 11:53:19 PM »
Are there really many people who believe that?
A lot of the old generation (read: higher risk) people in town do, yes.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3066 on: September 27, 2020, 12:24:09 AM »
Why not ask the leaders what their position is? Perhaps it is a conscious position rather than a lack of leadership.

Offline Lurker

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  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3067 on: September 27, 2020, 12:30:22 AM »
Why not ask the leaders what their position is? Perhaps it is a conscious position rather than a lack of leadership.

If leadership's position isn't known, is it really leadership?
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Offline Euclid

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3068 on: September 27, 2020, 12:34:28 AM »
Why not ask the leaders what their position is? Perhaps it is a conscious position rather than a lack of leadership.
I wasn't referring to the actual letters coming out now. We know what their position is; the current letters are very clear.

I'm referring to:
- the radio silence for months
- the conspicuous missing signatory
- the whispers about strife within the leadership corp (going back to March/April)
 

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3069 on: September 27, 2020, 12:41:59 AM »
I wasn't referring to the actual letters coming out now. We know what their position is; the current letters are very clear.

I'm referring to:
- the radio silence for months
- the conspicuous missing signatory
- the whispers about strife within the leadership corp (going back to March/April)
It’s not a situation where leaders, medical professionals, askanim etc. are all on the same page and there is a lack of leadership in terms of execution. Rather there was (and continues to be) a stark divergence of opinion that is reflected in the lack of clear communication.

Offline Euclid

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Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3070 on: September 27, 2020, 12:45:45 AM »
It’s not a situation where leaders, medical professionals, askanim etc. are all on the same page and there is a lack of leadership in terms of execution. Rather there was (and continues to be) a stark divergence of opinion that is reflected in the lack of clear communication.
No argument here. Maybe I phrased it wrong; it's heartbreaking that there are many high risk people in our community that are taking these communications at face value.

ETA: obviously no one high risk actually thinks they're high risk. ;)

Overhead a 60+ year old talking about his rosh hashana davening in his regular place in yeshiva.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 12:51:28 AM by Euclid »

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3071 on: September 27, 2020, 02:27:42 AM »
Why not ask the leaders what their position is? Perhaps it is a conscious position rather than a lack of leadership.

It’s not a situation where leaders, medical professionals, askanim etc. are all on the same page and there is a lack of leadership in terms of execution. Rather there was (and continues to be) a stark divergence of opinion that is reflected in the lack of clear communication.

Doesn’t sound like a problem with leadership, seems like there’s too many cooks in the kitchen. If there’s a dozen “leaders”, then there’s no leader at all.

Visibly Jewish

Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3072 on: September 27, 2020, 07:39:59 AM »

Overhead a 60+ year old talking about his rosh hashana davening in his regular place in yeshiva.
Does he have antibodies?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3073 on: September 27, 2020, 07:44:38 AM »
Doesn’t sound like a problem with leadership, seems like there’s too many cooks in the kitchen. If there’s a dozen “leaders”, then there’s no leader at all.
Everyone should be listening to their Rabbi, there is no need for every rabbi to be on the same page.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3074 on: September 27, 2020, 08:22:55 AM »
Everyone should be listening to their Rabbi, there is no need for every rabbi to be on the same page.

In the same city, there is a need for communication between rabbonim on this issue. This isn't a decision that only has ramifications for that individual shul. An outbreak in one shul can have devastating effects on the entire city.
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Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3075 on: September 27, 2020, 08:47:23 AM »
So you walked over, gave them a big Sholom Aleichem, and they told you?
I highly doubt they were outside for the weather.

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3076 on: September 27, 2020, 08:47:42 AM »
Was there a minyan, or just a couple of people in a tent outside of shul?
A couple of people.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3077 on: September 27, 2020, 09:06:15 AM »
In the same city, there is a need for communication between rabbonim on this issue. This isn't a decision that only has ramifications for that individual shul. An outbreak in one shul can have devastating effects on the entire city.
Who said there is no communication? They're just not in agreement. That's why each person's responsibility is to listen to their rav. The effect of someone else doing something you disagree with based on their rav is not your responsibility.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Lurker

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  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3078 on: September 27, 2020, 02:22:03 PM »
Who said there is no communication? They're just not in agreement. That's why each person's responsibility is to listen to their rav. The effect of someone else doing something you disagree with based on their rav is not your responsibility.

It's not my responsibility, but it quickly becomes my problem. They can be following their rov, while shopping in the same stores as my family and sending their kids to the same schools. This isn't kashrus or taharas hamishpacha, where your hadracha doesn't matter to anyone outside of your daled amos.
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: Corona virus and your shul
« Reply #3079 on: September 27, 2020, 02:43:28 PM »
It's not my responsibility, but it quickly becomes my problem. They can be following their rov, while shopping in the same stores as my family and sending their kids to the same schools. This isn't kashrus or taharas hamishpacha, where your hadracha doesn't matter to anyone outside of your daled amos.
So you have authority over everyone because you believe that he is a rodef?  I learned from past mistakes that you gotta listen to your guidance and let you neighbor listen to his.