Author Topic: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens  (Read 21201 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #255 on: February 12, 2021, 04:13:17 PM »
You make a lot of sense.  And despite the many Charter violations, no Canadian court would have the guts to stand up to the government. No one is questioning the quarantine or the testing requirements.  It is forcing people to pay $2k for a so called hotel stay.
So you’re OK with the quarantine but not OK with a hotel supervised quarantine? Do you not know many people disobey the home quarantine?
Plenty of countries mandate hotel quarantine; Israel, Australia, New Zealand, UK, Singapore, Hk, Thailand, and I’m sure others
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline lafindumonde

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #256 on: February 12, 2021, 04:39:54 PM »
So you’re OK with the quarantine but not OK with a hotel supervised quarantine? Do you not know many people disobey the home quarantine?

The 14 day quarantine was put in place before proof of a negative test was required.  Fine.  But now, they have moved the goalposts and require you to provide not 1, not 2, but 3 tests AND still quarantine for 14 days.  It's strictly punitive.

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #257 on: February 12, 2021, 04:45:41 PM »
Maybe essential travel for commerce should only be for bread and water?

You get my drift. Every decision is political. Affects shuls, weddings, commerce, etc.

Offline lafindumonde

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #258 on: February 12, 2021, 04:49:46 PM »
Maybe essential travel for commerce should only be for bread and water?

You get my drift. Every decision is political. Affects shuls, weddings, commerce, etc.

Correct. Trudeau cannot prevent Canadians from entering the country, so he is getting around it by adding a $2000 tax.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #259 on: February 12, 2021, 05:02:39 PM »
Maybe essential travel for commerce should only be for bread and water?

You get my drift. Every decision is political. Affects shuls, weddings, commerce, etc.
Of course, but that’s exactly what politics is for.
The majority of the population appoint representatives to make judgement calls.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline aygart

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #260 on: February 13, 2021, 10:58:22 PM »
It reflects the wishes of the majority of the country.
THis is a regular fallacy of yours. Just because a politician was elected doesn't come anywhere close to meaning that the policies implemented reflect the wishes of the majority of the country. Maybe SOME reflect that, but even that isn't so clear especially in a parliamentary system where his party won less than 35% of the vote. There can be many other reasons someone would be elected. To say that because someone was elected means that their policies on a pandemic that nobody even thought about at the time of their election are the wishes of the majority of the country is simply ridiculous! Do you consider Trump's policies to have been reflecting the will of the majority of the country?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #261 on: February 13, 2021, 11:08:55 PM »
Do you consider Trump's policies to have been reflecting the will of the majority of the country?
In a way, albeit he was never elected by a majority of the country. It reflects the will of the majority of the states, not a majority of the people in the country.

THis is a regular fallacy of yours. Just because a politician was elected doesn't come anywhere close to meaning that the policies implemented reflect the wishes of the majority of the country.

The wish of the majority of the country is that he will make the decisions, even if they don't agree with each decision, and separately, the majority of the country respect that authority to make decisions (many frum Jews don't, rightfully so insofar as it infringes on our beliefs). That's true whether he got 35%, 51% or 99%.

Prove me wrong.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline aygart

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #262 on: February 13, 2021, 11:41:31 PM »
The wish of the majority of the country is that he will make the decisions, even if they don't agree with each decision, and separately, the majority of the country respect that authority to make decisions (many frum Jews don't, rightfully so insofar as it infringes on our beliefs). That's true whether he got 35%, 51% or 99%.

Prove me wrong.
In a way, albeit he was never elected by a majority of the country. It reflects the will of the majority of the states, not a majority of the people in the country.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #263 on: February 14, 2021, 04:46:51 AM »

In a parliamentary system; 35% appoint their representatives and empower them to seat a government, so the government is representitive if a majority of the country. In the US system, the majority never voted or empowered anybody to appoint DJT, at best you can say 200 years ago their ancestors gave away their right to self determine in favor of giving other states an equal power. As it stands, DJT was never appointed or voted for by a majority of the people in the USA. (Not saying it isn’t fair)

I have no issue saying DJT policies represent the wishes of the majority of Texas residents, if you want to hear it, and it would be representative of the wishes of the whole country if a few more people voted for him.

As an aside, according to the Torah, 35% is a majority if it is the largest group just like 51% is, so even 35% would be the wishes of the majority if the disagreeing parties are multiple and smaller (this is seen in the Gemara which says כדבר פשוט that אחרי רבים להטות would tell you an unidentified body comes from the largest nearby city when there are multiple cities in equal distance, even if the largest city doesn’t comprise 51% of all the residents)
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Yehudaa

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #264 on: February 14, 2021, 03:24:32 PM »
I'm currently in quarantine in Toronto and just had a Garda security guard show up at my door to check that I was here.

Anecdotally from my own experience and from friends it definitely seems like enforcement is stronger now that they've got these private companies on it. They also used to call before they came (that's canadian manners for you) but they now show up unannounced.

Offline Thingywingy

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #265 on: February 14, 2021, 06:11:41 PM »
What is required for air travel from Canada to US and return before the 22nd for a dual citizen? Does the US require a negative test? Does vaccination suffice? What about on return? Thanks.
I am sometimes accused of overthinking things. I am still mulling over whether that accusation has merit.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #266 on: February 14, 2021, 06:56:18 PM »
What is required for air travel from Canada to US and return before the 22nd for a dual citizen? Does the US require a negative test? Does vaccination suffice? What about on return? Thanks.
I believe test on both sides regardless of vaccination. Quarantine as well.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Moshke

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #267 on: February 14, 2021, 08:35:09 PM »
What is required for air travel from Canada to US and return before the 22nd for a dual citizen? Does the US require a negative test? Does vaccination suffice? What about on return? Thanks.
Entering USA from Canada requires a rapid test.
USA to Canada requiring a PCR test.


Offline Lurker

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #269 on: February 14, 2021, 08:55:37 PM »
It really is a maze, but maybe this will be helpful...

Someone needs to make a Chutes and Ladders game out of this.
When you find yourself agreeing with me more often than not, it's time for a cheshbon hanefesh.