Author Topic: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens  (Read 125932 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #260 on: February 13, 2021, 10:58:22 PM »
It reflects the wishes of the majority of the country.
THis is a regular fallacy of yours. Just because a politician was elected doesn't come anywhere close to meaning that the policies implemented reflect the wishes of the majority of the country. Maybe SOME reflect that, but even that isn't so clear especially in a parliamentary system where his party won less than 35% of the vote. There can be many other reasons someone would be elected. To say that because someone was elected means that their policies on a pandemic that nobody even thought about at the time of their election are the wishes of the majority of the country is simply ridiculous! Do you consider Trump's policies to have been reflecting the will of the majority of the country?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #261 on: February 13, 2021, 11:08:55 PM »
Do you consider Trump's policies to have been reflecting the will of the majority of the country?
In a way, albeit he was never elected by a majority of the country. It reflects the will of the majority of the states, not a majority of the people in the country.

THis is a regular fallacy of yours. Just because a politician was elected doesn't come anywhere close to meaning that the policies implemented reflect the wishes of the majority of the country.

The wish of the majority of the country is that he will make the decisions, even if they don't agree with each decision, and separately, the majority of the country respect that authority to make decisions (many frum Jews don't, rightfully so insofar as it infringes on our beliefs). That's true whether he got 35%, 51% or 99%.

Prove me wrong.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline aygart

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #262 on: February 13, 2021, 11:41:31 PM »
The wish of the majority of the country is that he will make the decisions, even if they don't agree with each decision, and separately, the majority of the country respect that authority to make decisions (many frum Jews don't, rightfully so insofar as it infringes on our beliefs). That's true whether he got 35%, 51% or 99%.

Prove me wrong.
In a way, albeit he was never elected by a majority of the country. It reflects the will of the majority of the states, not a majority of the people in the country.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #263 on: February 14, 2021, 04:46:51 AM »

In a parliamentary system; 35% appoint their representatives and empower them to seat a government, so the government is representitive if a majority of the country. In the US system, the majority never voted or empowered anybody to appoint DJT, at best you can say 200 years ago their ancestors gave away their right to self determine in favor of giving other states an equal power. As it stands, DJT was never appointed or voted for by a majority of the people in the USA. (Not saying it isn’t fair)

I have no issue saying DJT policies represent the wishes of the majority of Texas residents, if you want to hear it, and it would be representative of the wishes of the whole country if a few more people voted for him.

As an aside, according to the Torah, 35% is a majority if it is the largest group just like 51% is, so even 35% would be the wishes of the majority if the disagreeing parties are multiple and smaller (this is seen in the Gemara which says כדבר פשוט that אחרי רבים להטות would tell you an unidentified body comes from the largest nearby city when there are multiple cities in equal distance, even if the largest city doesn’t comprise 51% of all the residents)
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online Yehudaa

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #264 on: February 14, 2021, 03:24:32 PM »
I'm currently in quarantine in Toronto and just had a Garda security guard show up at my door to check that I was here.

Anecdotally from my own experience and from friends it definitely seems like enforcement is stronger now that they've got these private companies on it. They also used to call before they came (that's canadian manners for you) but they now show up unannounced.

Offline Thingywingy

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #265 on: February 14, 2021, 06:11:41 PM »
What is required for air travel from Canada to US and return before the 22nd for a dual citizen? Does the US require a negative test? Does vaccination suffice? What about on return? Thanks.
I am sometimes accused of overthinking things. I am still mulling over whether that accusation has merit.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #266 on: February 14, 2021, 06:56:18 PM »
What is required for air travel from Canada to US and return before the 22nd for a dual citizen? Does the US require a negative test? Does vaccination suffice? What about on return? Thanks.
I believe test on both sides regardless of vaccination. Quarantine as well.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Moshke

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #267 on: February 14, 2021, 08:35:09 PM »
What is required for air travel from Canada to US and return before the 22nd for a dual citizen? Does the US require a negative test? Does vaccination suffice? What about on return? Thanks.
Entering USA from Canada requires a rapid test.
USA to Canada requiring a PCR test.


Offline Lurker

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #269 on: February 14, 2021, 08:55:37 PM »
It really is a maze, but maybe this will be helpful...

Someone needs to make a Chutes and Ladders game out of this.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Yo ssi

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #270 on: February 14, 2021, 09:05:14 PM »
Someone needs to make a Chutes and Ladders game out of this.
It seems the government is getting better and better at it, before you know they'll outsell hasbro!
_    ,
' )  /
 /  / __   _   _   o
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Offline Alexsei

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #271 on: February 15, 2021, 08:28:43 AM »
Beware, if you're heading to the U.S. For a short ~48hr trip you cannot use your #Canada test results (taken within 72hrs) as proof of negative test when returning. Epidemiology knows no common sense.
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Offline how

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #272 on: February 15, 2021, 11:33:42 AM »
Beware, if you're heading to the U.S. For a short ~48hr trip you cannot use your #Canada test results (taken within 72hrs) as proof of negative test when returning. Epidemiology knows no common sense.
You have a source?

Offline Alexsei

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #273 on: February 15, 2021, 12:59:13 PM »
You have a source?
Someone I know was told so this morning at lacolle

Also see: https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/news/2021/02/government-of-canada-expands-restrictions-to-international-travel-by-land-and-air.html

Quote
For travellers arriving to Canada by land, as of February 15, 2021, all travellers, with some exceptions, will be required to provide proof of a negative COVID-19 molecular test result taken in the United States within 72 hours of pre-arrival, or a positive test taken 14 to 90 days prior to arrival. In addition, as of February 22, 2021, travellers entering Canada at the land border will be required to take a COVID-19 molecular test on arrival as well as toward the end of their 14-day quarantine.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 01:07:47 PM by Alexsei »
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Offline Alexsei

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #274 on: February 15, 2021, 01:10:11 PM »
Today at lacolle border:

  • Group sent back because they only had a Canadian test (within 72 hours)
  • Person sent back because his test was 76 hours old
  • Person was sent aside because they questioned the validity of the test, person still waiting since 6:00am

« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 01:13:13 PM by Alexsei »
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Offline how

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #275 on: February 15, 2021, 01:29:14 PM »
Today at lacolle border:

  • Group sent back because they only had a Canadian test (within 72 hours)
  • Person sent back because his test was 76 hours old
  • Person was sent aside because they questioned the validity of the test, person still waiting since 6:00am


thank you

Offline Alexsei

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #276 on: February 15, 2021, 02:26:06 PM »
Developing story:

Two people are now at the border, they received their test results of a test taken yesterday 2 hours after they arrived to the crossing, border is telling them the test is false, they said call the lab, verify it whichever way you want they refused, they want to quarantine them now at a facility.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #277 on: February 15, 2021, 02:29:38 PM »
Developing story:

Two people are now at the border, they received their test results of a test taken yesterday 2 hours after they arrived to the crossing, border is telling them the test is false, they said call the lab, verify it whichever way you want they refused, they want to quarantine them now at a facility.

The border agents are assuming the test is false because of time timing of receiving the results?
DDF FFB (Forum From Birth)

Offline Alexsei

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #278 on: February 15, 2021, 02:30:42 PM »
The border agents are assuming the test is false because of time timing of receiving the results?
AFAIK they didn't tell them why they question the validity, they came in with a Canadian test which was within 72 hours and immediately told them they're awaiting results from a US test as well
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Offline Alexsei

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #279 on: February 15, 2021, 03:17:15 PM »
Developing story:

Two people are now at the border, they received their test results of a test taken yesterday 2 hours after they arrived to the crossing, border is telling them the test is false, they said call the lab, verify it whichever way you want they refused, they want to quarantine them now at a facility.
Released
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