Author Topic: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens  (Read 64762 times)

Offline Yehudaa

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #420 on: March 10, 2021, 08:43:41 AM »
In case this helps anyone: I just heard that anyone 21 and younger is exempt from the hotel quarantine if financially dependent on their parents, or maybe 22+ if still dependent. Seems unclear to me, and obviously YMMV upon arrival.

I haven't found this online but someone forwarded me an email from Health Canada to that effect.

ETA: I've heard that yeshiva guys in the US are eyeing this exemption on on this page but obviously a huge YMMV especially with hundreds of bochurim crossing in the next ~10 days.

Quote
A student who is enrolled at an educational institution in the United States, who attends that educational institution regularly and who enters Canada to return to their habitual place of residence after attending that educational institution, if they will not directly care for persons 65 years of age or older within the 14-day period that begins on the day on which the person enters Canada
« Last Edit: March 10, 2021, 08:54:07 AM by Yehudaa »

Offline Ploni3

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #421 on: March 10, 2021, 09:14:26 AM »
In case this helps anyone: I just heard that anyone 21 and younger is exempt from the hotel quarantine if financially dependent on their parents, or maybe 22+ if still dependent. Seems unclear to me, and obviously YMMV upon arrival.

I haven't found this online but someone forwarded me an email from Health Canada to that effect.

ETA: I've heard that yeshiva guys in the US are eyeing this exemption on on this page but obviously a huge YMMV especially with hundreds of bochurim crossing in the next ~10 days.
I have spoken to Canadian border control and they confirmed that this exemption (in the link that you said bochurim  are eying) is only meant  for students who regularly travel to the US - and they define regularly by daily or weekly, at the most.   
But,  the hotel quarantine does have an exemption of "an unaccompanied minor or unaccompanied dependent child" (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/latest-travel-health-advice/mandatory-hotel-stay-air-travellers.html#a2).  The quarantine Act that carves this out defines a "dependent child"  as the same meaning as in section 2 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations (https://orders-in-council.canada.ca/attachment.php?attach=40252&lang=en).  Those regulations define a dependent child as " is in one of the following situations of dependency, namely, (i) is less than 22 years of age and is not a spouse or common-law partner, or (ii) is 22 years of age or older and has depended substantially on the financial support of the parent since before attaining the age of 22 years and is unable to be financially self-supporting due to a physical or mental condition."  (https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/section-2.html)
So, every unmarried student/bochur traveling alone and under 22 should be exempt from the hotel quarantine (but not from the regular quarantine). 
As mentioned  earlier on this board, anyone who can show a positive PCR test from 14-90 days before entry to Canada is free from the hotel quarantine.

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #422 on: March 10, 2021, 11:05:19 AM »
I haven't heard of any reason that the driver wouldn't have to quarantine. I'm pretty sure they would.

Maybe someone from Toronto brings the Toronto person to the border, person from NY flies to BUF and takes a taxi across the border, and that taxi takes your Toronto person back BUF (hopefully for a lot less than $852).

Alternatively, just do that to get your NY person to Toronto, and have Toronto person fly to NY. I'd prefer to fly YYZ-EWR rather than drive to the border, take a taxi, and then fly to EWR.
I agree with you, though about it and it makes sense for whomever to fly into NY and then on the way home to fly into BUF and then from there, like you said to take a taxi across into Canada and have someone wait for them on the other side.

A real PIT* But this is the best option.
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Offline myi

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #423 on: March 10, 2021, 11:08:51 AM »
I have spoken to Canadian border control and they confirmed that this exemption (in the link that you said bochurim  are eying) is only meant  for students who regularly travel to the US - and they define regularly by daily or weekly, at the most.   
But,  the hotel quarantine does have an exemption of "an unaccompanied minor or unaccompanied dependent child" (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/latest-travel-health-advice/mandatory-hotel-stay-air-travellers.html#a2).  The quarantine Act that carves this out defines a "dependent child"  as the same meaning as in section 2 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations (https://orders-in-council.canada.ca/attachment.php?attach=40252&lang=en).  Those regulations define a dependent child as " is in one of the following situations of dependency, namely, (i) is less than 22 years of age and is not a spouse or common-law partner, or (ii) is 22 years of age or older and has depended substantially on the financial support of the parent since before attaining the age of 22 years and is unable to be financially self-supporting due to a physical or mental condition."  (https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/section-2.html)
So, every unmarried student/bochur traveling alone and under 22 should be exempt from the hotel quarantine (but not from the regular quarantine). 
As mentioned  earlier on this board, anyone who can show a positive PCR test from 14-90 days before entry to Canada is free from the hotel quarantine.
Now question is, can a US citizen who holds a citizenship card as a Canadian go in to canada with the same exemption being that they're under 22?

 I know a Canadian Passport would make life easier, but never applied for CAD passports.
   So using the citizenship cards I got for now and my US passport.
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Offline lcm

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #424 on: March 10, 2021, 11:14:51 AM »
Now question is, can a US citizen who holds a citizenship card as a Canadian go in to canada with the same exemption being that they're under 22?

 I know a Canadian Passport would make life easier, but never applied for CAD passports.
   So using the citizenship cards I got for now and my US passport.
I don't see why not.
They let you in since you are a citizen, a card is enough.
Once you're let in, I don't see why they wouldn't let you be exempt

Offline Yehudaa

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #425 on: March 10, 2021, 11:20:59 AM »
Now question is, can a US citizen who holds a citizenship card as a Canadian go in to canada with the same exemption being that they're under 22?

 I know a Canadian Passport would make life easier, but never applied for CAD passports.
   So using the citizenship cards I got for now and my US passport.
I don't see why not, but the interpretation of this under-22 thing might be only for dependents returning to their parents on whom they are dependent. If you're asking about someone under 22 who lives with and is dependent on parents in the US and wants to come visit someone else in Canada, I don't know if that would work.

Offline Alexsei

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #426 on: March 10, 2021, 11:33:17 AM »
One thing to keep in consideration, if you are a citizen they must let you in regardless of your testing status, and they won't take you to facility if you refuse, you might get a fine which you are very likely not gonna have to pay
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Offline Ploni3

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #427 on: March 10, 2021, 11:39:29 AM »
One thing to keep in consideration, if you are a citizen they must let you in regardless of your testing status, and they won't take you to facility if you refuse, you might get a fine which you are very likely not gonna have to pay
very likely not gonna have to pay... remember, that is an opinion.  You are dealing with a pretty serious offense, on the books. Penalties up to $750K and 6 months in jail.  Your choice if that is a chance you really want to take.

Offline Yehudaa

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #428 on: March 10, 2021, 11:44:12 AM »
very likely not gonna have to pay... remember, that is an opinion.  You are dealing with a pretty serious offense, on the books. Penalties up to $750K and 6 months in jail.  Your choice if that is a chance you really want to take.
I thought it was like $3k or something for failure to provide a test. Isn't the $750k related to not observing the quarantine?

Offline Alexsei

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #429 on: March 10, 2021, 11:44:54 AM »
very likely not gonna have to pay... remember, that is an opinion.  You are dealing with a pretty serious offense, on the books. Penalties up to $750K and 6 months in jail.  Your choice if that is a chance you really want to take.
Can you link to that law? let's debate it
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Offline Ploni3

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #430 on: March 10, 2021, 11:57:11 AM »
Can you link to that law? let's debate it
"Penalties, imprisonment and fines - Violating any instructions provided to you when you entered Canada is an offense under the Quarantine Act and could lead to up to:  6 months in prison and/or $750,000 in fines"

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/isolation

Offline Alexsei

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #431 on: March 10, 2021, 12:00:25 PM »
"Penalties, imprisonment and fines - Violating any instructions provided to you when you entered Canada is an offense under the Quarantine Act and could lead to up to:  6 months in prison and/or $750,000 in fines"

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/isolation
So instruction provided when you entered canada was to show up with a test ?
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Offline Yehudaa

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #432 on: March 10, 2021, 12:06:44 PM »
"Penalties, imprisonment and fines - Violating any instructions provided to you when you entered Canada is an offense under the Quarantine Act and could lead to up to:  6 months in prison and/or $750,000 in fines"

https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/isolation

That's for violating the quarantine rules or failing to take your day 1 or day 10 test at home. The fine for failing to show a test at the border is much lower:



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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #433 on: March 10, 2021, 12:09:30 PM »
I have spoken to Canadian border control and they confirmed that this exemption (in the link that you said bochurim  are eying) is only meant  for students who regularly travel to the US - and they define regularly by daily or weekly, at the most.   
While I'm not It sure it pays to rely on it, it seems the language was specifically changed.
It used to say: (source)
Quote
In addition, the updated Order specifies that a person will be denied limited release from quarantine on compassionate grounds if the province or territory where they intend to carry out their activity provides, through its public health authorities, written notice to the Minister of Health, objecting to release on such grounds. The person in charge of any location a person intends to visit for compassionate reasons during their 14-day quarantine period must also not object. These amendments to the compassionate grounds provisions will have effect beginning at 11:59:59 p.m. Eastern standard time on November 20, 2020

They have since switched the law as of Feb 20th to say: (source)
Quote
(r) a student who is enrolled at an educational institution in the United States, who attends that institution regularly and who enters Canada to return to their habitual place of residence after attending that institution, if they will not directly care for persons 65 years of age or older;
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Offline Ploni3

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #434 on: March 10, 2021, 12:58:30 PM »
While I'm not It sure it pays to rely on it, it seems the language was specifically changed.
It used to say: (source)
They have since switched the law as of Feb 20th to say: (source)

I spoke with the border control agency a few days ago, after the new language.  You are always welcome to try because everything is at the discretion of the particular agent you get.

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #435 on: March 10, 2021, 01:03:32 PM »
That's for violating the quarantine rules or failing to take your day 1 or day 10 test at home. The fine for failing to show a test at the border is much lower:


Maybe I was confused by the thread but my comments about an offense punishable with 6mth jail and $750K fine were directed at someone refusing hotel quarantine. 
As far as just not showing up with a test, you might be right that the fine is capped at $3K but if you refuse to take a test at the border or follow any instructions from border control I think that you are opening yourself up to violating the Quarantine Act orders and being subject to the much heavier penalties.

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #436 on: March 10, 2021, 01:24:50 PM »
I spoke with the border control agency a few days ago, after the new language.  You are always welcome to try because everything is at the discretion of the particular agent you get.
That is always true. Not to mention some are out to get you..
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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #438 on: March 10, 2021, 09:30:44 PM »
Any taxi from the airport taxi stand will drive into Canada for $85 flat fee

Here is what I am considering: Uber from BUF to Rainbow Bridge in Niagara Falls for approximately $40USD. 

Then, Uber from the Rainbow Bridge to Enterprise car rental in Niagara Falls, ON is no more than $10CAD.  A one day one way rental to Toronto is $95CAD all in.

Is there anything wrong with my plan?

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Re: Canada closing borders to most travellers who are not citizens
« Reply #439 on: March 12, 2021, 03:08:28 PM »
I have spoken to Canadian border control and they confirmed that this exemption (in the link that you said bochurim  are eying) is only meant  for students who regularly travel to the US - and they define regularly by daily or weekly, at the most.   
But,  the hotel quarantine does have an exemption of "an unaccompanied minor or unaccompanied dependent child" (https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/latest-travel-health-advice/mandatory-hotel-stay-air-travellers.html#a2).  The quarantine Act that carves this out defines a "dependent child"  as the same meaning as in section 2 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations (https://orders-in-council.canada.ca/attachment.php?attach=40252&lang=en).  Those regulations define a dependent child as " is in one of the following situations of dependency, namely, (i) is less than 22 years of age and is not a spouse or common-law partner, or (ii) is 22 years of age or older and has depended substantially on the financial support of the parent since before attaining the age of 22 years and is unable to be financially self-supporting due to a physical or mental condition."  (https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/section-2.html)
So, every unmarried student/bochur traveling alone and under 22 should be exempt from the hotel quarantine (but not from the regular quarantine). 
As mentioned  earlier on this board, anyone who can show a positive PCR test from 14-90 days before entry to Canada is free from the hotel quarantine.
Further to the above, I am hearing that some border agents have required proving "dependency" - in other words, being under 22 and single, may not automatically deem someone to be a dependent, notwithstanding that that is the way I would have interpreted the regulation.