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Author Topic: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!  (Read 28796 times)

Offline ah giten

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #160 on: March 26, 2020, 04:57:41 PM »
is  there an official policy in place?

Offline aygart

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #161 on: March 26, 2020, 05:08:57 PM »
is  there an official policy in place?

This is most likely a hospital policy since it seems that these shortages are localized and depend on each hospital
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline flatbush guy

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #162 on: March 26, 2020, 05:14:40 PM »
This front page from Der Yid, is unprecedented.
https://mobile.twitter.com/YiddisherVinkel/status/1243061750271967233

Offline hvaces42

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #163 on: March 26, 2020, 05:33:54 PM »
Unfortunately, I know of 2 people (over 80 years old) that were  denied care in NYC that were nifter.
Denied care? Doubtful. Hospital guidelines have changed based on Ethics panel decisions in each hospital. They will not work up cardiac arrests based on time down in the field etc. 
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Offline @mike

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #164 on: March 26, 2020, 06:52:36 PM »
Let me rephrase that...Denied a ventalator and admittance to ICU, only let into ER.

Offline chevron

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #165 on: March 26, 2020, 06:53:31 PM »
If someone in NY/NJ over age 60 is denied a ventilator-why not hop in a car and get to another state( PA,OH,Vermont) and get care?

I thought there was no shortage of ventilators at least that was what I sit on the thread for saying that they were going to run out.


Offline hvaces42

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #166 on: March 26, 2020, 07:19:38 PM »
Let me rephrase that...Denied a ventalator and admittance to ICU, only let into ER.
They didnt make it past the ER. I doubt they were denied as you claim.
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Offline S209

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #167 on: March 26, 2020, 07:36:26 PM »
They didnt make it past the ER. I doubt they were denied as you claim.
Why do you say that? Not familiar with facts on the ground but in Chicago a hospital as a matter of policy not giving ventilators to people over 80.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #168 on: March 26, 2020, 07:42:48 PM »
Why do you say that? Not familiar with facts on the ground but in Chicago a hospital as a matter of policy not giving ventilators to people over 80.
25 years of experience in the local hospitals is why I say that. There is always a wait to get to ICU and they stay in Resucitation rooms in ER until they can be transported. If they needed vents in the ER they would have gotten it. My experience tells me they didnt make decisions based on age. The patients were too sick when they got to the ER to save. Also, does he know if any of them had DNR/DNI? And per the nurses in Maimonides locally in BP I can tell you there is no such protocol in place...yet.
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Offline S209

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #169 on: March 26, 2020, 07:53:57 PM »
25 years of experience in the local hospitals is why I say that. There is always a wait to get to ICU and they stay in Resucitation rooms in ER until they can be transported. If they needed vents in the ER they would have gotten it. My experience tells me they didnt make decisions based on age. The patients were too sick when they got to the ER to save. Also, does he know if any of them had DNR/DNI? And per the nurses in Maimonides locally in BP I can tell you there is no such protocol in place...yet.
I don’t know too much, but this situation is unprecedented AFAIK so things may be changing. Perhaps not yet, but probably will. They certainly have around the world. The article linked below from the WP seems to indicate that hospitals have some flexibility in deciding those policies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/25/coronavirus-patients-do-not-resucitate/
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #170 on: March 26, 2020, 08:19:37 PM »
I don’t know too much, but this situation is unprecedented AFAIK so things may be changing. Perhaps not yet, but probably will. They certainly have around the world. The article linked below from the WP seems to indicate that hospitals have some flexibility in deciding those policies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/25/coronavirus-patients-do-not-resucitate/
So far the local hospitals have not.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #171 on: March 26, 2020, 11:02:23 PM »
Croatia earthquake
https://www.pukmedia.com/EN/EN_Direje.aspx?Jimare=59078
https://www.bijeljina.org/novosti/46190/64/FOTO-VIDEO-Dva-snazna-potresa-u-Zagrebu-pucali-zidovi-pao-vrh-katedrale.html

Legit. Didn’t click through the links but I know a Croatian who told me he got kicked out of his house in his PJs for a few days and couldn’t even go back to retrieve belongings. They’re pretty close to Italy BTW
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Offline aygart

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #172 on: March 26, 2020, 11:09:21 PM »
I don’t know too much, but this situation is unprecedented AFAIK so things may be changing. Perhaps not yet, but probably will. They certainly have around the world. The article linked below from the WP seems to indicate that hospitals have some flexibility in deciding those policies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/25/coronavirus-patients-do-not-resucitate/
https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1243344281420652547
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline hvaces42

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #173 on: March 26, 2020, 11:17:55 PM »
https://twitter.com/CortesSteve/status/1243344281420652547
Such clarity and reassurance. She doesnt say #FakeNews once but you hear it so clearly.
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Offline aygart

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #174 on: March 26, 2020, 11:24:46 PM »
Such clarity and reassurance. She doesnt say #FakeNews once but you hear it so clearly.
You can be assured that those whose agenda is contradicted by this will be certain to be calling her a Trumpster.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Luvisrael

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #175 on: March 26, 2020, 11:25:55 PM »
Such clarity and reassurance. She doesnt say #FakeNews once but you hear it so clearly.
hospital staff say otherwise

Offline aygart

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #176 on: March 26, 2020, 11:32:21 PM »
hospital staff say otherwise

Which hospital?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Luvisrael

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #177 on: March 26, 2020, 11:34:24 PM »
Which hospital?


Elmhurst hospital. She says she needs to keep begging for more ventilators and they send 5 at a time .

Offline aygart

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #178 on: March 27, 2020, 10:49:36 AM »

Elmhurst hospital. She says she needs to keep begging for more ventilators and they send 5 at a time .

Localized shortages can always happen and it does not make sense to suddenly send 100 vents to one community hospital. She does not say that they are turning people away.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shwarmabob

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Re: A lesson from Italy ?! Rabbanim wake up!!
« Reply #179 on: March 27, 2020, 02:56:25 PM »
 :'( >:(
got this email from Rabbi Horowitz:
"“Which God Are You Praying to With Your Bloodstained Hands?"

Dear Friends:

My piece below ran in The Times of Israel Blogs yesterday.

The feedback I've been getting from Hatzolah members about these "House Minyanim" is terrifying and heartbreaking -- and something the public needs to hear. Time permitting, I'll write and share with you.

Be well and Gut Shabbos/Shabbat Shalom

Yakov

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This morning, I saw a few fellows dressed like me walking to a (“house”) minyan/prayer quorum, a day after 13 people died of Coronavirus in one New York City hospital alone, a day after NYC officials announced that over 20,000 of its residents have Coronavirus, 3,750 hospitalized, 840 in ICU units, and 280 dead.

I could not help but wonder what God they are purportedly praying to, and what religion they are practicing.

It certainly isn’t the God who instructed us to suspend even the halachos/laws of Shabbos/Sabbath to save a human life. It certainly isn’t the God who instructed us to be respectful of our elders, to be mindful of the vulnerable and less fortunate, and to be good citizens who follow the laws of our lands.

Our Navi/Prophet Yeshayahu/Isaiah (1:15) sharply admonished people who were outwardly observing components of religious practice like bringing karbanos/animal sacrifices to the Beis Hamikdash/Temple while trampling on the core values of the Torah of kindness, compassion and empathy for those in need.

He referred to them as “the chiefs of Sedom and the nation of Amorah,” (1:10), informed them that God has no use for their karbanos (1:11), and that their very presence in the Beis Hamikdash is “loathsome to Him, and indeed a burden” (1:14).

Yeshayahu’s final words of rebuke are stunningly appropriate to very small, but certainly noticeable, number of people nowadays who are ignoring the directives of all elected officials at every level to practice social distancing, the heartfelt pleas of our heroic medical professionals and first responders, and rejecting the halachic/rabbinic rulings of virtually all rabbis across the spectrum.

וּבְפָרִשְׂכֶ֣ם כַּפֵּיכֶ֗ם אַעְלִ֤ים עֵינַי֙ מִכֶּ֔ם גַּ֛ם כִּֽי־תַרְבּ֥וּ תְפִלָּ֖ה אֵינֶ֣נִּי שֹׁמֵ֑עַ יְדֵיכֶ֖ם דָּמִ֥ים מָלֵֽאוּ׃

“And when you lift up your hands (in prayer), I will turn My eyes away from you; Though you pray at length, I will not listen. Your hands are stained with blood.” (Yeshayahu 1:15)

Over the past 2 weeks, I used much more polite language in this video (see below) and in my social media posts.

However, with all the bodies piling up r’l, I think it’s time to call them what they are — people with blood on their hands. People who are posing life-threatening danger to our most vulnerable men and women. People who are placing every member of our community in danger of the Anti-Semitism generated by the horrendous images of their lawless and reckless behavior circulating worldwide in our 24/7 interconnected, digital world.