How should schools and parents deal with tuition?

[knowitall]

All I can say about this topic is that seeing and hearing my kids learning this week, just increased my appreciation to their schools and teachers, and my motivation to pay tuition.

1000%, most teachers are extremely selfless and devoted.
This is totally an assumption but I would imagine there are many parents happy to pay, and also many parents that are paying with a very heavy heart, that they just don’t wanna fight.

[yos9694]

Annual contracts. You often have to pay to get out of them. It's not unreasonable.

What if a school decided to fire all the teachers and administrators in mid-year, would I still have to pay tuition because of the annual contract? Ridiculous.

[yos9694]

many parents that are paying with a very heavy heart, that they just don’t wanna fight.

This. No one in their right mind can speak up because they have you over a barrel. If you get on the wrong side of an argument with the school they can ruin your family forever.

Making tuition payments at the moment is a protection racket.

[Lurker]

What if a school decided to fire all the teachers and administrators in mid-year, would I still have to pay tuition because of the annual contract? Ridiculous.

If they replaced the teachers? Why not?

[yos9694]

If they replaced the teachers? Why not?

What if they didn't

[Lurker]

What if they didn't

Then we get into the details of whether they are in breach of contract. And in between, there's a lot of grey area, which is why every Beis Din is getting involved. My point was only in response to the difference between people you pay hourly with no contract versus schools that have annual tuitions and payment contracts.

Trust me, I'm still paying tuition and not making money. I get it. It sucks. And it's complicated. But let's keep the logic on track.

[moko]

Most schools, AFAIK, don't have those provisions, neither in their tuition contracts, nor in their employment contracts.

I meant to say no. I misunderstood. I thought you asked if there was a penalty

[Shmobaum]

@AsherO
First listen to the hourlong shiur and then start your harsh anti-Halacha questioning.
It has nothing to do with gender. It’s all types of “poalim” vs. “melamed”.

[Lurker]

I meant to say no. I misunderstood. I thought you asked if there was a penalty

So there's a penalty?

[zale]

All I can say about this topic is that seeing and hearing my kids learning this week, just increased my appreciation to their schools and teachers, and my motivation to pay tuition.

Same here, but not full tuition. Before Pesach I was prepared to call them and give them a piece of my mind. Now I’m much more satisfied, but still don’t think it’s fair to pay full tuition.

I hope they proactively reach out and offer a discount or credit for next year, but I may be dreaming.

[12HRS]

On the other side of things if this daddy day care lasts much longer I would be willing to pay much more next year for my sanity back 

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

All I can say about this topic is that seeing and hearing my kids learning this week, just increased my appreciation to their schools and teachers, and my motivation to pay tuition.

 

[S209]

Same here, but not full tuition. Before Pesach I was prepared to call them and give them a piece of my mind. Now I’m much more satisfied, but still don’t think it’s fair to pay full tuition.

I hope they proactively reach out and offer a discount or credit for next year, but I may be dreaming.

This

Can somebody please explain why playgroups are different than other businesses?
Before corona, I paid every week for a lady to watch my kid X hours.
I paid every week for a lady to come clean my house X hours.
Let’s say I also paid an instructor weekly to come show me how to exercise, a barber or makeup lady, a music teacher, an art teacher.....

I’m not hearing anyone say to pay X% of the regular amount to people in these other professions.
(Yes, I know they’re less common)

Forget about other workers for now, though there’s what to discuss. If you pay for playgroup with a flat monthly fee like me and then keep your child home for a few days, do you still need to pay? Certainly.

Should the playgroup shut of their own volition, then of course you wouldn’t have to pay, and in theory you could sue them for specific performance (lol).

In this case, they are no more not accepting your child than you are not sending your child of your own free will. You are equally bound to follow the law and Halacha regarding this. So why do they lose 100%? Sure, they aren’t watching your kids, but if it’s partially your fault then you’re still on the hook..

[as2]

ThisForget about other workers for now, though there’s what to discuss. If you pay for playgroup with a flat monthly fee like me and then keep your child home for a few days, do you still need to pay? Certainly.

Should the playgroup shut of their own volition, then of course you wouldn’t have to pay, and in theory you could sue them for specific performance (lol).

In this case, they are no more not accepting your child than you are not sending your child of your own free will. You are equally bound to follow the law and Halacha regarding this. So why do they lose 100%? Sure, they aren’t watching your kids, but if it’s partially your fault then you’re still on the hook..

So if I call my playgroup on 5/1 and ask them when I can drop my kid off that day, and they refuse me, I am no longer liable to pay anything as it's 100% their fault?

[S209]

So if I call my playgroup on 5/1 and ask them when I can drop my kid off that day, and they refuse me, I am no longer liable to pay anything as it's 100% their fault?

Now we are venturing into more complicated territory but a simple answer is no, you are not legally allowed to send so you can’t expect them to disobey the law for you.

A better question: what if under 60 can open and over 60 can’t, and your playgroup Morah is 65? There is a lot of room to say in that case you would not have to continue paying. I am not a Rav, though.

[AsherO]

@AsherO
First listen to the hourlong shiur and then start your harsh anti-Halacha questioning.
It has nothing to do with gender. It’s all types of “poalim” vs. “melamed”.

Thanks for explaining. Plz link to the shiur if you have it.

Not sure where I bashed Halacha. The wage gap is an American thing not a halachic thing, my statement was tongue in cheek and not meant to disparage R’ Usher Weiss or Halacha.

[Ergel]

My son's school sent an email erev shabbos saying that if people stop paying the school will be in danger of closing. If anyone has hardship paying, they should contact the school, but otherwise to please continue paying. We will be continuing to pay our tuition.
They also sent out a separate email this week that they were able to procure some funds to help any families in the school who are having trouble.

[moko]

So there's a penalty?

yes. Clients let us know that they were not in position to pay with their own contracts being cancelled.  We've chosen not to force the issue since we  value the relationships with these clients. 

[yesitsme]

there is a psak from the bais havaad, cant upload file too large

there is a update

[Mordyk]

there is a update

Please post the update

[Shmobaum]

My brother asked Rabbi Chaim M Roth from Lakewood a highly respected choshen mishpat Rav and he said the we should continue to pay.