How should schools and parents deal with tuition?

[yitzgar]

Sure, some tuition collection might be down but services and expenses are way down. And the money from Washington is flowing in to schools. Let's be honest here....

Why are services relevant? All that should matter are expenses and income

[aygart]

Sure, some tuition collection might be down but services and expenses are way down. And the money from Washington is flowing in to schools. Let's be honest here....

The only expenses down are utilities and maintenance which are a sliver of the budget. Fundraising is down tremendously. Some expenses are up. What they will get from Washington remains to be seen and can vary greatly between schools. It is also unlikely to be what you are speculating it will be. You are making things up. Which expenses do you think are way down?

[JMHO]

Which expenses do you think are way down?

Utilities
Maintenance
Security
Food
Payroll (huge amount!)
Etc

[moko]

Etc

our accountant doesn't let us use "etc" as an expense description.

[aygart]

Utilities
Maintenance
Security
Food
Payroll (huge amount!)
Etc

Which parts of payroll do you think are down? Utilities and are a sliver of the budget. Much of the food is subsidized anyhow.

[JMHO]

Which parts of payroll do you think are down?

Maintenance
Cleaning crew
Security
Teachers
Rabbeim
Office staff

Don't forget about PPP as well!

[AsherO]

our accountant doesn't let us use "etc" as an expense description.

Office supplies, equipment maintenance. Maintenance and cleaning parts/equipment/consumables. Prizes. Disposables. Trash removal.

Those are some itemized etc. items

[yesitsme]

Maintenance
Cleaning crew
Security
Teachers
Rabbeim
Office staff

so you believe the work without pay?
show me a school that the office is closed or that the teachers went on vacation (even in there house)

[aygart]

Maintenance
Cleaning crew
Security
Teachers
Rabbeim
Office staff

Don't forget about PPP as well!

Why do you think payroll for rabbeim is down? Why do you think that payroll for office staff is down? Maintenance I agree but from the employment law guidance a lawyer gave on an Agudah webinar that is also questionable.

[aygart]

Office supplies, equipment maintenance. Maintenance and cleaning parts/equipment/consumables. Prizes. Disposables. Trash removal.

Those are some itemized etc. items

Aren't most of those maintenance? Considering the sheets and booklets we are picking up every other day for my kids I doubt that office supplies are down and they are more likely up.

[S209]

By far the worst part of this is the school people vehemently insisting that parents don't have any valid taynos.

Source?

[AsherO]

Aren't most of those maintenance? Considering the sheets and booklets we are picking up every other day for my kids I doubt that office supplies are down and they are more likely up.

My kids’ school isn’t offering any of that.

[aygart]

My kids’ school isn’t offering any of that.

I understand there are differences between schools. Part of why they have that is because they do not have video conferences. Having those creates its own group of replacement expenses.

Either way, these are a small sliver compared to the payroll of rabbeim. How that will be helped by PPP remains to be seen and is almost certain to vary from chool to school. The timing of when they actually recieve PPP can make a difference as well considering how close we are to the end of the school year.

[aygart]

Source?

That is likkely to vary from school to school.

On the other hand, from everything I have seen from rabbonim and botei din about this including what I have heard from dayanim oin conferences for rabbonim they have made the same point that I have been saying throughout this thread and that other than some specific items such as room and board the"school people are absolutely correct.

[etech0]

That is likkely to vary from school to school.

This should be the subtitle of this thread

[aygart]

This should be the subtitle of this thread

PPP is really the only item which will make a big difference in halacha. Not whether or not some admins are not nice to some parents. That is just the PR of it.

[aygart]

Sure, some tuition collection might be down but services and expenses are way down. And the money from Washington is flowing in to schools. Let's be honest here....

One more point here, we don't know how much tuition may be down without discussing it with the school. I suspect that you are underestimating it. Also, fundraising other than tuition is WAY down. Many schools make fundraising events during sfira when halls are cheaper and more available but are unable to do that this year. Many schools rely on income from simcha halls which are not operating (this of course is less affected because of sfira). My chioldren go to the Lakewood Cheder. They have 3 wedding halls between their buidings which brought in money and now are not.

[skyguy918]

PPP is really the only item which will make a big difference in halacha. Not whether or not some admins are not nice to some parents. That is just the PR of it.

Even with PPP, it's very possible that some schools will still be in the hole, due to reduced fundraising and tuition collections. So then what? If you take the approach that the parent body is still responsible for the overall financial health of the institution, then everyone should still be paying as much tuition as they are able, no? But if you take the approach of fee for service, then it shouldn't matter whether they got PPP - it's more a question of whether they're providing sufficient service to command the fee.

[aygart]

Even with PPP, it's very possible that some schools will still be in the hole, due to reduced fundraising and tuition collections. So then what? If you take the approach that the parent body is still responsible for the overall financial health of the institution, then everyone should still be paying as much tuition as they are able, no? But if you take the approach of fee for service, then it shouldn't matter whether they got PPP - it's more a question of whether they're providing sufficient service to command the fee.

Yes.

On the other hand, from everything I have seen from rabbonim and botei din about this including what I have heard from dayanim oin conferences for rabbonim they have made the same point that I have been saying throughout this thread and that other than some specific items such as room and board the"school people are absolutely correct.

To make sure I am clear, I am referring to what I have been saying that it is the parent's responsibility.

[yesitsme]

That is likkely to vary from school to school.

On the other hand, from everything I have seen from rabbonim and botei din about this including what I have heard from dayanim oin conferences for rabbonim they have made the same point that I have been saying throughout this thread and that other than some specific items such as room and board the"school people are absolutely correct.

correct, I believe tuition should be paid in full unless PPP covers and forgives, but why should I pay for transportation and after-school program