Author Topic: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?  (Read 50678 times)

Offline zale

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2020, 10:02:20 PM »
Am I the only one here that thinks that the schools should be the ones consulting with rabbanim and proactively reaching out to parents? Why are they all playing ignorant? What gives them the right to continue charging full tuition when they can't provide the services that were agreed upon?

This is the calm before the storm. I'm calling this now.

Offline A3

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2020, 11:03:27 PM »
tbh I didnít read this entire thread before posting.

Are schools being transparent about what their expenses are like now with Corona compared to before? If theyíre not going to end up paying rent, not feeding my kids, and paying only the main teacher for each class to do a video session for an hour a day, why am I getting charged full tuition?

It hurts extra that DW is an assistant in the school, they obviously pay her peanuts and her part-time salary covers only half the tuition. They arenít paying her a penny now, but theyíre asking for full tuition to be paid ďso they can pay the teachers before PesachĒ. I call bluff.

Open your books and weíll see whatís what.
Look up the 990

Offline yesitsme

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2020, 11:26:53 PM »
there is a psak from the bais havaad, cant upload file too large
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 11:35:07 PM by yesitsme »
["-"]

Offline good sam

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #63 on: April 01, 2020, 12:11:22 AM »
I'm happy to keep paying so long as I'm able but only to cover salaries, not to make up deficits or mitigate fundraising requirements.

More importantly, I want a refund on my school property taxes.
If you don't care why would you comment?
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Offline zale

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #64 on: April 01, 2020, 01:04:06 AM »
there is a psak from the bais havaad, cant upload file too large

This only covers playgroups.

Online S209

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #65 on: April 01, 2020, 03:22:09 AM »
non-profit. It's the first exclusion when applying for unemployment.
This likely has changed, look into it
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline AsherO

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #66 on: April 01, 2020, 07:10:22 AM »
This only covers playgroups.

Correct. The first paragraph of the guidelines is pretty clear about this stating that it certainly does not apply to schools.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #67 on: April 01, 2020, 07:11:15 AM »
Look up the 990

How would the 990 from previous years tell me what their expenses were a month ago vs. today?
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Offline A3

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #68 on: April 01, 2020, 10:30:18 AM »
How would the 990 from previous years tell me what their expenses were a month ago vs. today?
It can give you an overall look at the financials. In addition to payroll, what other loan obligations are there. What do you need to stay afloat.

Offline neveryou

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #69 on: April 01, 2020, 11:29:16 AM »
I think this will be the straw that broke the camel's back with regards to schools and their tuition

Offline ltttc

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #70 on: April 01, 2020, 11:34:21 AM »
With all due respect, this does not answer any real questions.

First, in the times of the RAMA a parent would privately hire a melamed and pay him directly. It doesn't work that way today. If you have a class of 25 children and each child is paying $10,000 for tuition, the teacher is NOT getting paid $250K per year. Yeshivos operate on a commercial scale. Only a fraction of tuition a parent pays actually goes to the teachers. The rest goes to maintenance, food, administration etc. Essentially if we are going strictly by the RAMA, we should only be paying 1/5 of the tuition which is what the teacher gets paid.
Who is supposed to be paying for the mortgage/rent?? Utilities? Taxes? Insurance? Maintenance? Supplies? Etc etc etc Everything- from the copies to the printer to the cleaning staff and supplies cost $$$.
Mosdos struggle in the best of times, how are they supposed to manage now? Tuition does not cover the cost of what it takes to get your child through the year - A fact I hear from many administrators. -(Feel free to verify for yourself)
Schools are a non-profit entity and that is because most work on a loss! They do it with mesiras nefesh for your children and mine and e/o else's.
I don't know what the solution is but I'm just showing that there's another side and it is a very complicated situation.
For now, I am continuing with my tuition payments.

Offline A3

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How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #71 on: April 01, 2020, 11:35:40 AM »
I know everybodyís situation is different.
The way I feel for me...
I have three boys, 9,7,4.
The 9&7 year old in elementary school are busy most of the day with online learning. I know their teachers and Rabbis are working hard. Iím ok paying.

My 4 year old in pre-k... we get like a 5 min WhatsApp video a week. For April Iím ok paying as tzedakah so the morahs have money for Pesach. I know there are loans and grants, but itís not going to come on time. Should they refund for meals and other not used overhead expenses? Absolutely

For May and June... if thereís no school... no way Iím paying. If I have to cancel the checks I will. Especially since by then they should have taken as advantage of the programs. If not.... itís on them.

I know everyone situation is different. I already had April budgeted. Going further anything can change.

Offline SamCan

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #72 on: April 01, 2020, 11:42:56 AM »
Schools should listen to Dayanim. All other emotional arguments should be used to try to get donations. The Baltimore beis din claims that they can charge full tuition, while r Shlome Miller claims a peshara excluding mortgage payments. Ami magazine also had an article from a beis din for a peshara.

All kind of emotional arguments, are not a right to charge tuition. In times like this when everyone needs zechusim, schools should not be charging tuition without an absolute heter, otherwise it is geneiva.

Online aygart

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #73 on: April 01, 2020, 11:51:13 AM »
Who is supposed to be paying for the mortgage/rent?? Utilities? Taxes? Insurance? Maintenance? Supplies? Etc etc etc Everything- from the copies to the printer to the cleaning staff and supplies cost $$$.
Mosdos struggle in the best of times, how are they supposed to manage now? Tuition does not cover the cost of what it takes to get your child through the year - A fact I hear from many administrators. -(Feel free to verify for yourself)
Schools are a non-profit entity and that is because most work on a loss! They do it with mesiras nefesh for your children and mine and e/o else's.
I don't know what the solution is but I'm just showing that there's another side and it is a very complicated situation.
For now, I am continuing with my tuition payments.

Basically my point over here
Whose burden should it be if not the parents?
Parents should pay for what is needed for the chinuch of their children. How that is a very good question but you still haven't answered whose responsibility it should be if not the parents.

It is not the responsibility of the rosh hamosad or the board to keep the school in existence but rather the resposibility of the parents/community. Are some expenses lower? Likely. They are not using just about all of the items you mentioned such as
Utilities?  Maintenance? Supplies? Etc etc etc Everything- from the copies to the printer to the cleaning staff and supplies cost $$$.
But on the other hand, they can also be losing out on a significant amount of fundraising such as if they have a simcha hall etc.

The rabbeim all still need to be able to feed theor families. That too is the responsibility of the parents and not the administration.

I am not so sure that it all schools will be able to take advantage of all of the programs out there. Does all compensation make the school eligible for these grants or is it only payroll? Are they all under 500 employees? A school with a number of parallel classes can start getting close once you include support staff.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ltttc

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #74 on: April 01, 2020, 11:51:40 AM »
Schools should listen to Dayanim. All other emotional arguments should be used to try to get donations. The Baltimore beis din claims that they can charge full tuition, while r Shlome Miller claims a peshara excluding mortgage payments. Ami magazine also had an article from a beis din for a peshara.

All kind of emotional arguments, are not a right to charge tuition. In times like this when everyone needs zechusim, schools should not be charging tuition without an absolute heter, otherwise it is geneiva.
Fair enough, but then perhaps this thread is in the wrong forum to begin with. AFAIK this isn't a rabbinical forum (although many seem to believe it is)

Online aygart

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #75 on: April 01, 2020, 11:52:13 AM »
r Shlome Miller claims a peshara excluding mortgage payments. Ami magazine also had an article from a beis din for a peshara.

Source? Link/image?
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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #76 on: April 01, 2020, 12:01:14 PM »
AFAIK this isn't a rabbinical forum (although many seem to believe it is)
Source?  ;D

Offline SamCan

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #77 on: April 01, 2020, 12:10:09 PM »
Source? Link/image?


Headlines podcast. The Dayan from the bĒd does not sound completely sure about mortgage payments either.

Offline good sam

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #78 on: April 01, 2020, 12:16:18 PM »
A good solution for many would be to continue to pay tuition but from maaser money. This was my Rov's suggestion, check with YLOR.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #79 on: April 01, 2020, 12:19:42 PM »
The rabbeim all still need to be able to feed theor families. That too is the responsibility of the parents and not the administration.

Can I pay the teachers directly and get a tuition credit from the school?
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