Author Topic: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?  (Read 18274 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #105 on: April 01, 2020, 04:24:38 PM »
All right, utilities. You think theyíre still heating and lighting the entire building?
That is not a program which they are not providing. That is an expense which they are not incurring.
ETA: as an aside, what they pay for utilities when they don't use as much is very dependent on their exact tariff/contract/rate structure and will change if they have solar as well depending on how that is structured.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 04:27:55 PM by aygart »
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

Offline SamCan

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #106 on: April 01, 2020, 04:31:14 PM »
Does Baltimore beis din psak apply to the entire world? It clearly has the words ďfor our community ď. Baltimore schools can charge, all other schools need their local beis din to pasken.

Offline aygart

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #107 on: April 01, 2020, 04:53:48 PM »
Does Baltimore beis din psak apply to the entire world? It clearly has the words ďfor our community ď. Baltimore schools can charge, all other schools need their local beis din to pasken.
It is specific to Baltimore.
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

Offline moko

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #108 on: April 01, 2020, 07:56:15 PM »
My 9 year old is getting about 3.5 hours a day Zoom classes limudei kodesh and chol  with the works. breakout room sessions, online testing, homework etc.
My 5 year old has about 2 hours a day Zoom video limudei kodesh and chol. also complete with doing the prearranged projects, parsha, hagada etc as a class.
School has put a lot of effort into the setup. Students will be behind minimally (if at all) when returning to school.
My wife does her playgroup on Zoom for at least an hour daily and all the children (besides my 3 year old) are there.

I am happy to do my part to ensure my children's chinuch continues.
Also, the structure is amazing. We'd be lost without it.
Using your g-d given right of stupidity is an option, not a requirement. Please use sparingly.

Online Sammy82

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #109 on: April 01, 2020, 08:23:13 PM »
If I recall correctly, one thing mentioned by one of the rabbonim on Headlines said something along the lines that if one does withhold payment (according to what the local BD paskened), the school has every right to deny entry next year. Hope you have another school ready to take your kids in (unless u enjoyed homeschooling  :D)

Offline zale

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #110 on: April 01, 2020, 08:56:17 PM »
If I recall correctly, one thing mentioned by one of the rabbonim on Headlines said something along the lines that if one does withhold payment (according to what the local BD paskened), the school has every right to deny entry next year. Hope you have another school ready to take your kids in (unless u enjoyed homeschooling  :D)

I had a good laugh at this. Let’s see them threaten the majority of the parent-body of the school.

Like the virus, many Rabbanim and schools are in denial about the deluge that’s about to happen with tuition.

You see, most parents are too overwhelmed right now with what’s going on and with Pesach. Once Pesach ends and the reality of the Corona havoc sets in, calls will start pouring in. I can see most parents agreeing to pay some tuition, but they will want a significant discount. Some might demand a full refund or credit for next year.

I also don’t think the Rabbanim who said that the school can threaten not allowing students back took into account the legal ramifications of making such a threat, as it is a form of blackmail.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 09:00:34 PM by zale »

Offline yos9694

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #111 on: April 01, 2020, 09:36:03 PM »
Tuition has never been about being fair. The model is to charge triple for each child with the understanding that those who can't come up with that much will negotiate down. Anyone who is unable to prove a shortfall or is unwilling to go through the audit process gets stuck with the inflated retail price.

This situation is no different. The "halachik" ruling is already predetermined (parents must pay) and the only thing in question is how to write the brief that interprets halachik sources to defend that foregone conclusion. Then, the parents who are able to prove they cannot pay and are willing to open up their books will be let off the hook on an individual basis.

One last thing- the stimulus bill potentially grants a lot of money to yeshivos as forgivable loans to sustain payroll (assuming they wont fire staff). If/when yeshivos get this money I doubt even the most creative poskim could find justification for double dipping.

Offline knowitall

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #112 on: April 01, 2020, 09:46:21 PM »
Tuition has never been about being fair. The model is to charge triple for each child with the understanding that those who can't come up with that much will negotiate down. Anyone who is unable to prove a shortfall or is unwilling to go through the audit process gets stuck with the inflated retail price.

This situation is no different. The "halachik" ruling is already predetermined (parents must pay) and the only thing in question is how to write the brief that interprets halachik sources to defend that foregone conclusion. Then, the parents who are able to prove they cannot pay and are willing to open up their books will be let off the hook on an individual basis.

One last thing- the stimulus bill potentially grants a lot of money to yeshivos as forgivable loans to sustain payroll (assuming they wont fire staff). If/when yeshivos get this money I doubt even the most creative poskim could find justification for double dipping.
IINM the stimulus bill only grants $10,000 as forgivable. The rest must be paid back, at relatively low interest.

Online mme

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #113 on: April 01, 2020, 09:51:12 PM »
IINM the stimulus bill only grants $10,000 as forgivable. The rest must be paid back, at relatively low interest.
then there is the ppp program that gives bigger loans

Offline knowitall

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #114 on: April 01, 2020, 10:00:35 PM »
then there is the ppp program that gives bigger loans
That donít need to be paid back?

Offline aygart

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #115 on: April 01, 2020, 10:02:11 PM »
That donít need to be paid back?
If qualified
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

Offline yos9694

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #116 on: April 01, 2020, 10:06:28 PM »
That donít need to be paid back?

The loans are forgivable if they don't lay off their staff. I don't think there's a yeshiva in the world that even knows how to do layoffs, so they'll all likely be forgiven.

Offline Dan

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #117 on: April 01, 2020, 10:14:53 PM »
If I recall correctly, one thing mentioned by one of the rabbonim on Headlines said something along the lines that if one does withhold payment (according to what the local BD paskened), the school has every right to deny entry next year. Hope you have another school ready to take your kids in (unless u enjoyed homeschooling  :D)
So you think there will be school next year :)
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Online Sammy82

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #118 on: April 01, 2020, 11:34:41 PM »
I had a good laugh at this. Letís see them threaten the majority of the parent-body of the school.

Like the virus, many Rabbanim and schools are in denial about the deluge thatís about to happen with tuition.

You see, most parents are too overwhelmed right now with whatís going on and with Pesach. Once Pesach ends and the reality of the Corona havoc sets in, calls will start pouring in. I can see most parents agreeing to pay some tuition, but they will want a significant discount. Some might demand a full refund or credit for next year.

I also donít think the Rabbanim who said that the school can threaten not allowing students back took into account the legal ramifications of making such a threat, as it is a form of blackmail.
1) I was just repeating what I heard
2) he didn't say threaten them. He said they have a halachic right to not take them back. Don't know why it's any different then not renewing any contract when u feel the other party owes u money. Something wrong with that?
3) not so sure majority of parents think the way u are thinking. I planned on paying the full amount (actually for whatever reason, it's already paid so there's even less of a reason to think I'll be able to recover it, even of I wanted to). I know many other people that for a variety of reasons  plan on accepting whatever the local pasak is. Granted, I'm in a situation where thankfully I still have a job and income. And that my wife works for a local school and thus far have been paying like regular so in a way I'm nogeah bedavar on the other side. But many people are in fact are losing/lost their income and I'm sure are struggling so I could def see how this could be a bigger issue for them financially.

Offline zale

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #119 on: April 01, 2020, 11:42:02 PM »
he didn't say threaten them. He said they have a halachic right to not take them back. Don't know why it's any different then not renewing any contract when u feel the other party owes u money. Something wrong with that?

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

"You'd better not ask for (some) money back for services we are not providing, or you will not be allowed into school next year".