Author Topic: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?  (Read 19230 times)

Offline Ergel

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #195 on: April 25, 2020, 04:14:35 PM »
My son's school sent an email erev shabbos saying that if people stop paying the school will be in danger of closing. If anyone has hardship paying, they should contact the school, but otherwise to please continue paying. We will be continuing to pay our tuition.
They also sent out a separate email this week that they were able to procure some funds to help any families in the school who are having trouble.
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Offline moko

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #196 on: April 25, 2020, 08:57:59 PM »
So there's a penalty?
yes. Clients let us know that they were not in position to pay with their own contracts being cancelled.  We've chosen not to force the issue since we  value the relationships with these clients. 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 09:02:20 PM by moko »
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #197 on: April 28, 2020, 12:57:20 AM »
there is a psak from the bais havaad, cant upload file too large
there is a update

Offline Mordyk

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #198 on: April 28, 2020, 01:01:04 AM »
there is a update
Please post the update

Offline Shmobaum

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #199 on: April 28, 2020, 01:12:09 AM »
My brother asked Rabbi Chaim M Roth from Lakewood a highly respected choshen mishpat Rav and he said the we should continue to pay.

Offline yesitsme

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Offline good sam

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #201 on: April 28, 2020, 10:53:10 AM »
I don't understand the legal argument to obligate the consumer to pay. I could have a 10 year contract, if the vendor is unable to provide the service then the consumer is not obligated to pay, period (unless the contract explicitly states that this particular risk is assumed by the consumer, which would be very unusual).

If the school or playgroup is offering a modified service through zoom or phone conferences, I agree this is a question for a beis din.

Sure, whoever is able should continue to pay so the teachers and rebbes can get paid, but that's from maaser and with a tax receipt and only to the extent one is able.
If you don't care why would you comment?
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Offline Lurker

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #202 on: April 28, 2020, 10:57:55 AM »
I don't understand the legal argument to obligate the consumer to pay. I could have a 10 year contract, if the vendor is unable to provide the service then the consumer is not obligated to pay, period (unless the contract explicitly states that this particular risk is assumed by the consumer, which would be very unusual).

If the school or playgroup is offering a modified service through zoom or phone conferences, I agree this is a question for a beis din.

Sure, whoever is able should continue to pay so the teachers and rebbes can get paid, but that's from maaser and with a tax receipt and only to the extent one is able.

Very often tuition contracts are structured as a one-time fee due at the beginning of the year, and it is non-refundable under any circumstances. They will then allow parents to make monthly payments to pay off the balance owed. Taking your child out of school doesn't entitle you to a refund. The argument can be made that force majeure releases the school from having to fulfill the rest of the contract without giving a refund.
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Offline good sam

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #203 on: April 28, 2020, 11:08:45 AM »


Very often tuition contracts are structured as a one-time fee due at the beginning of the year, and it is non-refundable under any circumstances. They will then allow parents to make monthly payments to pay off the balance owed. Taking your child out of school doesn't entitle you to a refund. The argument can be made that force majeure releases the school from having to fulfill the rest of the contract without giving a refund.
Who on earth would sign such a contract? My tuition contract certainly doesn't say that.

Force majeure is a vendor's risk, not consumer. I could not imagine any just legal system requiring a buyer to pay for goods or services it hasn't received, unless a contract expressly provides for the consumer's assumption of risk.
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Offline knowitall

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #204 on: April 28, 2020, 11:24:45 AM »
I think the tuition discussion isn't really about a company, or vendor vs. a consumer.
The discussion points are more along the lines of makkas medina, the chasam sofer/rema, paying a melamed, parent's ownership in the school...
It's not clear if schools are a fee for service or something else.

I don't know much halacha regarding these topics, (the headlines podcast covered some btw) but I am overall pretty shocked:
1) The schools overall took it for granted that tuition should continue to be paid in full
2) The relative lack of clear and public rabbinic guidance here
3) The lack of parents expressing their dissatisfaction 

That being said, parents and schools are usually trying to accomplish a shared goal- educating your child. And when a parent isn't happy, they usually keep quiet as fighting a school is like fighting city hall.

Offline reed

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #205 on: April 28, 2020, 11:43:53 AM »
I havenít even tried with my kids schools - I know the answer will be HELL NO. I consider the administrator of my kids Yeshiva a Rashah who is personally responsible from keeping Yiddish neshamas being brought into this world because of parents afraid of paying more obscene tuition costs and the absolute humiliation and degradation one must go through to even being considered for a discount - which never is granted if you have a decent job. They just take it all.

Problem is multiplied when when the Board consists of gvirim and today ever increasingly itís populated by trust fund babies who never had to worry about money a day in their lives and whose parents set up foundations to pay the tuition for all the einklich.

Offline 12HRS

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #206 on: April 28, 2020, 12:42:05 PM »
Nebach

Offline yos9694

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #207 on: April 28, 2020, 02:11:19 PM »
I don't know much halacha regarding these topics, (the headlines podcast covered some btw) but I am overall pretty shocked:
1) The schools overall took it for granted that tuition should continue to be paid in full
2) The relative lack of clear and public rabbinic guidance here
3) The lack of parents expressing their dissatisfaction 

1) Is a fact. The lingering question is if they were simply too nogeia badavar to see any side of the coin except their own, or if they simply don't believe in putting emes v'yashrus ahead of money

2) I believe this is because it is very difficult to halachicly justify what the schools are doing, and no rabbonim are going to publish anything that says the schools are wrong

3) Parents are at the mercy of the schools (especially in a place like lakewood) and can't take the risk of opposing them

Offline aygart

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #208 on: April 28, 2020, 03:27:35 PM »
I havenít even tried with my kids schools - I know the answer will be HELL NO. I consider the administrator of my kids Yeshiva a Rashah who is personally responsible from keeping Yiddish neshamas being brought into this world because of parents afraid of paying more obscene tuition costs and the absolute humiliation and degradation one must go through to even being considered for a discount - which never is granted if you have a decent job. They just take it all.

Problem is multiplied when when the Board consists of gvirim and today ever increasingly itís populated by trust fund babies who never had to worry about money a day in their lives and whose parents set up foundations to pay the tuition for all the einklich.

Maybe you should consider a different school?
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Offline reed

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Re: How should schools and parents deal with tuition?
« Reply #209 on: April 28, 2020, 05:56:27 PM »
Maybe you should consider a different school?

Unfortunately I havenít heard it any better in other boys schools in 5 towns/far rock tho Iím sure ppl will come out and say they had other experiences.