Bite at what? No reason to attack, I was clearly not trying to be insensitive and just trying to understand, right? No? Oh well, then I guess prefacing with that statement doesn’t actually mean anything if you then go on to attack. Look back and see your post that I was responding to.
LOL. "Bite" is an expression for responding to an argument while suspecting an ambush. I have no intent to attack C"V, but I do very strongly stand by my opinions on this matter. I am open to hearing other opinions, but so far they simply don't hold up. You are correct, the relationship I have with MY childrens' schools are what are shaping my opinions, as well as what I hear from other people about their schools. I do acknowledge that there are some very good schools out there that go above and beyond, but at the same time I am willing to assume that they are the minority.
I don't have a lot of time, so I will respond to the most pertinent things.
First, you need to understand that a grocery store and school are not equal. Schools operate very differently than other businesses. They are not opened for profits but to provide a service to the community, and it is the community’s obligation to keep them going. We have moved to a model of the parents of children sustaining the schools, proportional to the amount of children attending school, with the help of wealthier benefactors to cover the gaps in revenue, rather than there being an equal burden shared by all community members. This model makes more sense because those deriving more benefits should pay more into the pot, but there are also issues with it, as people note all the time.
There are two responses to this, keeping in mind what I said before that there ARE some good people and schools out there.
- Schools are not a business, but most are run like a business. The "school" does not make a profit, but the administrators who run the school will typically get a nice salary and get compensated with other benefits as well. The "school's" deficit is irrelevant. Of course, it's in the best interest of those administrators to ensure that the school is able to keep functioning. Squeezing every dollar out of you IS beneficial to them personally. Furthermore, and this is the most important part: parents generally don't get a say in how the school is run. The administrators treat themselves like the bosses and the parents like the customers. You can't come crying about how it's "our" responsibility to come together and keep the school running when there is no "our".
- Being a service does not absolve the school of being fair financially. If you pay into a service, you still need to get what you paid for. Imagine there was one water well in your neighborhood that everyone had to pay into a management firm to use and keep it up. If there was a drought and there was no water, you would not have to keep paying in full for its upkeep. Whomever was managing it would have to take a paycut or be furloughed until the drought passes.
With that said, the burden to keep the school going for their child falls largely upon the parents who are sending their child to school. They are fulfilling their obligation to educate their child through the school, and are responsible to help pay for the service.
No. See the example of the well I gave above. Even with a service, you only pay for what you receive. There is no "us" when you don't have a direct say or vote.
Take an example of a current Prime member who is still using Amazon a lot, but is not currently getting 2 day shipping due to Covid. He is up for renewal. Do you have a right to demand a refund from Amazon for your Prime membership because some of the benefits are now missing? No, you can choose to stop being a member any time. Do you have a right to demand that Gourmet Glatt take responsibility for incorrect items, which they are not doing during Covid? No, you can take your business elsewhere. Can you demand a refund from Geico because you’re driving your car less? No, you can stop using them.
You are using examples that largely work against you.
First, Geico actually did issue discounts across the board, but even if they did not, they are insuring your car whether you drive it or not. You don't pay Geico to drive your car, but to keep it insured while you do. Nothing changed in that regard. A better comparison would be if Geico said they are changing your policy from $100,000 coverage to $10,000.00 coverage. In that case, people WOULD be screaming bloody murder for a refund.
Second, I didn't read through Amazon's terms and conditions, and it's very likely that there is a clause stating that 2-days are not guaranteed, especially in extenuating circumstances. But even if no such clause exists (which is highly unlikely), they are still giving you the fastest possible service available, and you are still getting your items as quick as they can ship it out. In addition, Prime encompasses many more features which they are still providing. This is NO comparison to schools which are CLOSED, and are merely offering classes online, which is NOT the same service. A better comparison would be if Amazon couldn't ship anything to you anymore, and instead stated that you can still use their other services like free Prime Video or free Kindle books. In that case, people WOULD be demanding a refund.
Third, did Gourmet Glatt state upfront that they will be sending incorrect items? I am not familiar with this.
The schools are offering a diminished product through no fault of their own, but they are still providing their services.
And this is where the crux of the issue is. I disagree. Teaching online is a different service. It is not school as we know it. It does not replace school and it never will. This is exactly like what I stated above, where Amazon says they are no longer shipping items, but you can still take advantage of Prime Video.
They will also continue to provide those after these issues are over.
No, after these issues are over, they will provide the service they have provided pre-Covid. A service they did not provide during Covid. Please don't try to connect this service to the online class service, as they are not one and the same, and they are not a "continuation" on one another.
Do you wish to pull your child out of school now, and keep him out forever?
No, I want to pay a reduced rate now, and pay the standard rate when school reopens. Where does "forever" come into this???
If you are continuing to utilize their services and will continue in the future you have no right to demand a discount or refund. At least as much as any other business could tell you, this is the service they are currently providing and if you don’t like it, leave.
Nope, as stated above, this is not the same service, and any other business that tried this would get smacked.
Then, you seem to be throwing in the concept of if parents are struggling, teachers should struggle. I know what you said about teachers in your community but in the communities I’m associated with teachers are very poorly compensated.
You are correct. The teachers that I know are living quite comfortably, but even if they were not, there are many other people that are poorly compensated for their jobs. Does that mean that their employers have to continue paying them?
The school should not proactively reach out and offer a blanket discount for everyone to latch onto. Like you said, many are unaffected by Covid and should not be paying less because of it.
Yes, they should be reaching out. And those whom were unaffected should continue to give out of the goodness of their hearts.
If your argument is that it’s “fair” for teachers to get paid less because some parents are making less, so therefore schools should unilaterally charge less and then pay teachers less, tell that to Amazon. They’re cutting your benefits, so they should discount your membership and pay their workers less to make it fair.
As stated above, they are still providing the service they laid out in the terms and conditions, and you are still getting items shipped to you. If my child was still going to school, but for a few less hours due to Covid, I wouldn't be demanding a refund.
If your argument is that they’re providing a diminished product, this is the best service they can now provide and they will return to the previous service when they can. If you are saying you want to withdraw your child from school now and keep him out in the future,
What's with you and the future? When school reopens, I will continue paying as agreed.
I don't have time to go further on this now, but I will reiterate that I do believe that there are nice and mentchlich schools out there, just not the ones I know.
At the end of the day, when it comes down to it, you believe that parents are to bear the burden of the school at all costs. From a tzedaka point of view I can understand that, but then again, I don't believe people should be forced to give tzedaka to a moisad unless they voluntarily choose to do so.
I also want to know, what would your opinion be if the school was NOT doing online or tele-classes?
