Author Topic: yeshivas that are open  (Read 56982 times)

Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #120 on: May 19, 2020, 10:04:19 PM »
Yes... he gave examples of things that are legal, but just reflect poorly on the Jew in the eyes of the goyim. The response: "Calling this something that they don't like is simply ridiculous and shows how misplaced this argument is." Because they are not equal comparisons. As explained above.
So you're saying illegal makes it Aiva? I understood you to say it's assur just if it's illegal. CMIIW

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #121 on: May 19, 2020, 10:05:00 PM »
What are your views? Re: Opening when it's against the law.
I don't think they should be ignored and definitely not in the own.
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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #122 on: May 19, 2020, 10:05:47 PM »
So you're saying illegal makes it Aiva? I understood you to say it's assur just if it's illegal. CMIIW

No, I'm saying illegal makes it illegal. Saying it's the same as bowing to random whims of goyim is not an equal argument. That is all I said.
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Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #123 on: May 19, 2020, 10:06:57 PM »
Yes and I was pointing out how the comparison is nonsensical. The aiva over here is not at all the way he wss describing. It was a bunch of purple getting reckless with lives and putting others in danger
If that's the case it would be assur without the aiva. Anyone who thinks they can daven with minyanim, doesn't think they're being reckless with lives. The whole question of aiva is only if it would be muttar otherwise.

Offline ari3

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #124 on: May 19, 2020, 10:08:42 PM »
Yes and I was pointing out how the comparison is nonsensical. The aiva over here is not at all the way he wss describing. It was a bunch of purple getting reckless with lives and putting others in danger
You keep confusing aiva with danger.

I respect the rabbonim that are guiding the policies of these institutions to decide that opening a yeshiva is not getting reckless and putting others in danger more than I trust Cuomo or you on that or at least I feel that they are entitled to decide that. So that brings us back to the question of aiva.

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #125 on: May 19, 2020, 10:08:45 PM »
So you're saying illegal makes it Aiva? I understood you to say it's assur just if it's illegal. CMIIW
When they are making guidelines to save lives and everyone is seeing many hidden openly ignoring it is aiva. This should not be difficult to understand. Just look at the anti semitism that it caused. As far as aiva goes it makes no difference if others are doing it to our worse.  You need to be really delusional to be unable to comprehend this. How can it not be aiva to do things which everyone rightly and reasonably understands as creating a public danger?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #126 on: May 19, 2020, 10:08:49 PM »
No, I'm saying illegal makes it illegal. Saying it's the same as bowing to random whims of goyim is not an equal argument. That is all I said.

We have very different views on what's acceptable al pi Torah when it comes to violating government laws. We'll have to leave it at that...
What does this mean?

Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #127 on: May 19, 2020, 10:11:16 PM »
When they are making guidelines to save lives and everyone is seeing many hidden openly ignoring it is aiva. This should not be difficult to understand. Just look at the anti semitism that it caused. As far as aiva goes it makes no difference if others are doing it to our worse.  You need to be really delusional to be unable to comprehend this. How can it not be aiva to do things which everyone rightly and reasonably understands as creating a public danger?
What anti semitism are you referring to? Nasty blog comments?
Again,
If that's the case it would be assur without the aiva. Anyone who thinks they can daven with minyanim, doesn't think they're being reckless with lives. The whole question of aiva is only if it would be muttar otherwise.

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #128 on: May 19, 2020, 10:11:43 PM »
If that's the case it would be assur without the aiva. Anyone who thinks they can daven with minyanim, doesn't think they're being reckless with lives. The whole question of aiva is only if it would be muttar otherwise.
You keep confusing aiva with danger.

I respect the rabbonim that are guiding the policies of these institutions to decide that opening a yeshiva is not getting reckless and putting others in danger more than I trust Cuomo or you on that or at least I feel that they are entitled to decide that. So that brings us back to the question of aiva.
Wrong and wrong. It is a question of whether to make kuntzim which may make it safer but would not be understood by those seeing it and would be viewed as being reckless.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ari3

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #129 on: May 19, 2020, 10:13:01 PM »
When they are making guidelines to save lives and everyone is seeing many hidden openly ignoring it is aiva. This should not be difficult to understand. Just look at the anti semitism that it caused. As far as aiva goes it makes no difference if others are doing it to our worse.  You need to be really delusional to be unable to comprehend this. How can it not be aiva to do things which everyone rightly and reasonably understands as creating a public danger?
Most people at this point don't "rightly and reasonably understands that as creating a public danger" and they definitely don't think so.The fact that a number of yeshivos have been open already for a little while and there isn't a spike in cases would seem that they aren't wrong

Offline Lurker

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #130 on: May 19, 2020, 10:13:16 PM »
What does this mean?

It means that my rabbonim have decided that opening schools in violation of the government laws is not acceptable. Other rabbonim disagree. That's what it means. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #131 on: May 19, 2020, 10:13:29 PM »
Wrong and wrong. It is a question of whether to make kuntzim which may make it safer but would not be understood by those seeing it and would be viewed as being reckless.
When they are making guidelines to save lives and everyone is seeing many hidden openly ignoring it is aiva. This should not be difficult to understand. Just look at the anti semitism that it caused. As far as aiva goes it makes no difference if others are doing it to our worse.  You need to be really delusional to be unable to comprehend this. How can it not be aiva to do things which everyone rightly and reasonably understands as creating a public danger?
Which one?

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #132 on: May 19, 2020, 10:14:05 PM »
What anti semitism are you referring to? Nasty blog comments?
Again,
Sending the police to Jewish areas. Comments by the mayor. Hospitals not treating Jews properly because they brought it upon themselves. This was specifically called out by the Lakewood rabbonim. Actual attacks against Jews. Are you blind?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #133 on: May 19, 2020, 10:14:38 PM »
It means that my rabbonim have decided that opening schools in violation of the government laws is not acceptable. Other rabbonim disagree. That's what it means. Nothing more, nothing less.
Fair enough. I thought you meant it was your personal views.

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #134 on: May 19, 2020, 10:14:54 PM »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #135 on: May 19, 2020, 10:16:11 PM »


The fact that a number of yeshivos have been open already for a little while and there isn't a spike in cases would seem that they aren't wrong
This is counterfactual as I have already pointed out.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #136 on: May 19, 2020, 10:16:22 PM »
Sending the police to Jewish areas. Comments by the mayor. Hospitals not treating Jews properly because they brought it upon themselves. This was specifically called out by the Lakewood rabbonim. Actual attacks against Jews. Are you blind?
The only one that's significant is the last one. Did it really happen?

Offline ari3

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #137 on: May 19, 2020, 10:16:48 PM »
It means that my rabbonim have decided that opening schools in violation of the government laws is not acceptable. Other rabbonim disagree. That's what it means. Nothing more, nothing less.
some people here have a hard time understanding that other rabbonim have opinions that are different than theirs, and that they have a right to have those opinions.

Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #138 on: May 19, 2020, 10:17:14 PM »
What is your question?
Is it because it's an actual public danger or a percieved one?

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #139 on: May 19, 2020, 10:17:51 PM »
The only one that's significant is the last one. Did it really happen?

Yes.
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