Author Topic: yeshivas that are open  (Read 57021 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #140 on: May 19, 2020, 10:18:26 PM »
The only one that's significant is the last one. Did it really happen?
Every single one is significant.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline EliJelly

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #141 on: May 19, 2020, 10:18:37 PM »
This is counterfactual as I have already pointed out.
Isn't this just a theory as of now? The reopening criteria is definitely not based on a two month spike.

Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #142 on: May 19, 2020, 10:20:12 PM »
Every single one is significant.
Says who? Chilul Shabbos would be muttar for the first 2 reasons?
Yes.
I'll take your word.

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #143 on: May 19, 2020, 10:20:49 PM »
Is it because it's an actual public danger or a percieved one?
Because they are skirting a rule made for public safety. It is right for someone to object to that since it will undermine the role. It is also rightly perceived as b being dangerous on its own.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #144 on: May 19, 2020, 10:22:59 PM »
Isn't this just a theory as of now? The reopening criteria is definitely not based on a two month spike.
I am not making a deduction he is. The reopening is being bungled immensely and should move much faster. The criteria they are using are not with scientific basis.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Lurker

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  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #145 on: May 19, 2020, 10:23:31 PM »
some people here have a hard time understanding that other rabbonim have opinions that are different than theirs, and that they have a right to have those opinions.

On a personal level, I'm very much disturbed by their decision and the ramifications that may come from it, and I will continue to voice my opinions about these things. But to argue with you over what your rabbonim say is pointless, just like it would be pointless for you to argue with me about what my rabbonim say.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline ari3

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #146 on: May 19, 2020, 10:23:51 PM »
Hospitals not treating Jews properly because they brought it upon themselves. This was specifically called out by the Lakewood rabbonim.
There is a reason the lakewood rabbonim backtracked on that one so fast. The hospital in question has been mistreating Jews well before there was Covid 19

Quote
Actual attacks against Jews
Source?

Quote
Are you blind?
You seem to be the one who has a hard time seeing others opinions. I would't be calling others blind

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #147 on: May 19, 2020, 10:24:06 PM »
Says who? Chilul Shabbos would be muttar for the first 2 reasons?I'll take your word.
Those are what led to the attacks do they are not at all disconnected.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ari3

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #148 on: May 19, 2020, 10:26:00 PM »
On a personal level, I'm very much disturbed by their decision and the ramifications that may come from it, and I will continue to voice my opinions about these things. But to argue with you over what your rabbonim say is pointless, just like it would be pointless for you to argue with me about what my rabbonim say.
They are actually not my Rabbonim. My childrens schools and yeshivos are closed. I still respect these Rabbonims positions and am of the opinion that they are entitled to have them even if others don't agree

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #149 on: May 19, 2020, 10:27:14 PM »
There is a reason the lakewood rabbonim backtracked on that one so fast. The hospital in question has been mistreating Jews well before there was Covid 19
Source?
You seem to be the one who has a hard time seeing others opinions. I would't be calling others blind
Aiva is currently the most overused and abused halacha around
Everytime a goy doesn't like your mitzvos or passes laws against them you stop doing them?
There is a difference between him getting angry about not saving a goy and not doing mitzvos because he doesn't like mitzvos
As an odom choshuv pointed out maybe we should start eating neveilos because PETA doesn't like shechita
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #150 on: May 19, 2020, 10:28:00 PM »
Because they are skirting a rule made for public safety. It is right for someone to object to that since it will undermine the role.
They do not view it as a rule made for public safety, unless you're judging purely on intent.
It is also rightly perceived as being dangerous on its own.
Not rightly, but still a point.

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #151 on: May 19, 2020, 10:29:25 PM »
They do not view it as a rule made for public safety, unless you're judging purely on intent. Not rightly, but still a point.
The rule that there should not be gathering or that they didn't make a million exceptions for every way that it can possibly be done safely?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #152 on: May 19, 2020, 10:29:38 PM »
Those are what led to the attacks do they are not at all disconnected.
IDK what attacks you're referring to? physical? verbal?
ETA: This is also just your personal opinion.

Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #153 on: May 19, 2020, 10:30:42 PM »
The rule that there should not be gathering or that they didn't make a million exceptions for every way that it can possibly be done safely?
The lack of nuance in the rule ;)

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #154 on: May 19, 2020, 10:31:14 PM »


There is a reason the lakewood rabbonim backtracked on that one so fast.
They were saying this for at least 3 weeks. Is that what you mean by so fast?

Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ari3

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #155 on: May 19, 2020, 10:31:52 PM »
Says who? Chilul Shabbos would be muttar for the first 2 reasons?I'll take your word.
The only reason mentioned on that list that would warrant chillul shabbos is the second (maybe?) At this point I would doubt that reason would apply

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #156 on: May 19, 2020, 10:33:07 PM »
The lack of nuance in the rule ;)
Correct there is no nuance in the rule. That itself is needed for public safety. I understand that it can be viewed otherwise, but it is a sensible argument that it needs to bee blanket to be effective.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #157 on: May 19, 2020, 10:33:55 PM »
The only reason mentioned on that list that would warrant chillul shabbos is the second (maybe?) At this point I would doubt that reason would apply
They are all one. There are many cases of aiva which do not involve police.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline chinagel

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #158 on: May 19, 2020, 10:34:08 PM »
Correct there is no nuance in the rule. That itself is needed for public safety. I understand that it can be viewed otherwise, but it is a sensible argument that it needs to bee blanket to be effective.
Except there is nuance. Just not for this.

Offline ari3

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #159 on: May 19, 2020, 10:34:25 PM »
They were saying this for at least 3 weeks. Is that what you mean by so fast?
The forbidding of all minyonim because there was an aiva that reached a level of chillul shabbos