Author Topic: yeshivas that are open  (Read 56999 times)

Online aygart

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #240 on: May 25, 2020, 10:52:19 PM »
You seem to have trouble understanding the difference between young healthy people and people who are at high risk.
Are these people with high risk for anxiety? Did they have a prior anxiety issue?


Are the more new anxiety cases or more 30-50 year old getting seriously ill?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #241 on: May 25, 2020, 10:53:54 PM »
Are these people with high risk for anxiety? Did they have a prior anxiety issue?


Are the more new anxiety cases or more 30-50 year old getting seriously ill?
Are the anxiety cases brought on by people who have lost loved ones or have loved ones that are severely ill?
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Offline avromie7

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #242 on: May 25, 2020, 11:02:56 PM »
You seem to have trouble understanding that young people ARE at significant risk relative to other illnesses and can be carriers of a deadly virus to other more vulnerable people.
Young healthy people aren't at significant risk, all the data shows this.

A young healthy person shouldn't be living in fear. Should they protect the vulnerable? Of course! but why are they living in fear?

Are these people with high risk for anxiety? Did they have a prior anxiety issue?


Are the more new anxiety cases or more 30-50 year old getting seriously ill?
  These numbers are very significant. They may very well have had prior anxiety issues, but the notion that there are no significant mental health issues due to the lockdown is ridiculous.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/more-people-are-taking-drugs-for-anxiety-and-insomnia-and-doctors-are-worried-11590411600
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #243 on: May 25, 2020, 11:03:47 PM »
Question.

If you would now hear about one new diagnosis within the frum community who them spread it to 10 people, would that be the same or different from that attorney and why
we are fooling ourselves if we believe there aren't any infected people out there. The differences that stand out to me would be, that at the time we were under the illusion that this can be stopped in its tracks. and now we have a much better understanding of how there are those who are much more susceptible to this virus than others

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #244 on: May 25, 2020, 11:06:24 PM »
we are fooling ourselves if we believe there aren't any infected people out there. The differences that stand out to me would be, that at the time we were under the illusion that this can be stopped in its tracks. and now we have a much better understanding of how there are those who are much more susceptible to this virus than others
Are the numbers of people young enough to have harried children who were victims low enough for you to consider that am acceptable risk? How about the older people who caught it even with precautions?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline avromie7

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #245 on: May 25, 2020, 11:08:35 PM »
Are the anxiety cases brought on by people who have lost loved ones or have loved ones that are severely ill?
Prescriptions for anti-anxiety increased by 900k, that's 9 for every death in the country. Antidepressants increased by 2.5M, or 25 for every death. Theres no way anywhere near that number is caused by people who lost loved ones.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #246 on: May 25, 2020, 11:11:20 PM »
@avromie7

Why do you keep on saying that young people "shouldn't live in fear"?

Does taking precautions to not be exposed mean living in fear? I don't see why you have to be anxious about it. Just don't do foolhardy things. Being exposed to a novel virus is a foolhardy thing to do.

Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #247 on: May 25, 2020, 11:14:24 PM »
Young healthy people aren't at significant risk, all the data shows this.

A young healthy person shouldn't be living in fear. Should they protect the vulnerable? Of course! but why are they living in fear?

Define significant risk? Many young and healthy have died and been hospitalized, a much greater amount than other contagious illnesses cause. And as @biobook has pointed out, we have no clue how this looks long term. Why is it irrational to be cautious when facing a virus who’s long term effects we know NOTHING about? See Zika. This is not some pie in the sky war possibility. This is a real and tangible threat.

You can call it living in fear and negligible risk as I can call ignoring the threat dangerous and reckless. A more proper way of describing the two sides would be as more or less cautious.

Unless, of course, you’re just trying to disparage anyone who disagrees with you. You wouldn’t do that after calling out others for doing that, would you? Your head isn’t stuck somewhere, is it?

These numbers are very significant. They may very well have had prior anxiety issues, but the notion that there are no significant mental health issues due to the lockdown is ridiculous.
Who denied there are mental heath issues due to the lockdown? But as I’ve said before, how do you know what mental health issues would arise of greater death and devastation? How do you know the anxiety is not a direct result of the hundreds of thousands of hospitalizations (and deaths)? Those people have families and friends, you know.
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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #248 on: May 25, 2020, 11:14:42 PM »
@avromie7

Why do you keep on saying that young people "shouldn't live in fear"?

Does taking precautions to not be exposed mean living in fear? I don't see why you have to be anxious about it. Just don't do foolhardy things. Being exposed to a novel virus is a foolhardy thing to do.
I don't think that he is advocating throwing away all precautions.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline avromie7

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #249 on: May 25, 2020, 11:14:58 PM »
Are the numbers of people young enough to have harried children who were victims low enough for you to consider that am acceptable risk? How about the older people who caught it even with precautions?
Preexisting conditions were a big factor, I was just told by a family member of one of the people we were all giving money for that he had a known heart condition and the hospital put a DNR on him without the family's consent. I think such people as well as the elderly should be very careful.
@avromie7

Why do you keep on saying that young people "shouldn't live in fear"?

Does taking precautions to not be exposed mean living in fear? I don't see why you have to be anxious about it. Just don't do foolhardy things. Being exposed to a novel virus is a foolhardy thing to do.
The discussion started about someone who was very cautious and is now afraid to go out to daven with a minyan. That person is living in fear, I'm sure there are many other people who are taking precautions and not living in fear.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #250 on: May 25, 2020, 11:15:06 PM »
Are the numbers of people young enough to have harried children who were victims low enough for you to consider that am acceptable risk? How about the older people who caught it even with precautions?
I don't make risk assessments for other people when it comes to their lives.
I am only pointing out that I believe this virus is alive and well and therefore not going to be eradicated anytime soon.
So whether or not there has been a confirmed case i would treat it as if there is one, and my CBA would be accordingly.   

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #251 on: May 25, 2020, 11:16:29 PM »
Define significant risk? Many young and healthy have died and been hospitalized, a much greater amount than other contagious illnesses cause. And as @biobook has pointed out, we have no clue how this looks long term. Why is it irrational to be cautious when facing a virus who’s long term effects we know NOTHING about? See Zika. This is not some pie in the sky war possibility. This is a real and tangible threat.

You can call it living in fear and negligible risk as I can call ignoring the threat dangerous and reckless. A more proper way of describing the two sides would be as more or less cautious.

Unless, of course, you’re just trying to disparage anyone who disagrees with you. You wouldn’t do that after calling out others for doing that, would you? Your head isn’t stuck somewhere, is it?
Who denied there are mental heath issues due to the lockdown? But as I’ve said before, how do you know what mental health issues would arise of greater death and devastation? How do you know the anxiety is not a direct result of the hundreds of thousands of hospitalizations (and deaths)? Those people have families and friends, you know.
Not only family and friends. The anxiety suffered when we were hearing about how the funeral homes were overloaded is no small thing.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Euclid

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #252 on: May 25, 2020, 11:18:27 PM »
@avromie7

Why do you keep on saying that young people "shouldn't live in fear"?

Does taking precautions to not be exposed mean living in fear? I don't see why you have to be anxious about it. Just don't do foolhardy things. Being exposed to a novel virus is a foolhardy thing to do.

Many people seem to conflate caution with fear. That people who are being cautious and safe/conservative are somehow living in abject terror.

I wonder if the 2 sides of this ongoing divide are actually just 2 sides of the personality spectrum. Cautious on one side, and the risk taking on the other.

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #253 on: May 25, 2020, 11:20:29 PM »
I don't think that he is advocating throwing away all precautions.
Right. I don't think I said he was. But I think that being careful and not going to an indoors minyan at this point is a valid move and we should not be casting such an individual as anxious.
The discussion started about someone who was very cautious and is now afraid to go out to daven with a minyan. That person is living in fear, I'm sure there are many other people who are taking precautions and not living in fear.

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #254 on: May 25, 2020, 11:21:39 PM »
Many people seem to conflate caution with fear. That people who are being cautious and safe/conservative are somehow living in abject terror.

I wonder if the 2 sides of this ongoing divide are actually just 2 sides of the personality spectrum. Cautious on one side, and the risk taking on the other.
Sounds like a good topic for a new thread. Go for it.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #255 on: May 25, 2020, 11:26:08 PM »
Define significant risk? Many young and healthy have died and been hospitalized, a much greater amount than other contagious illnesses cause. And as @biobook has pointed out, we have no clue how this looks long term. Why is it irrational to be cautious when facing a virus who’s long term effects we know NOTHING about? See Zika. This is not some pie in the sky war possibility. This is a real and tangible threat.

You can call it living in fear and negligible risk as I can call ignoring the threat dangerous and reckless. A more proper way of describing the two sides would be as more or less cautious.

Unless, of course, you’re just trying to disparage anyone who disagrees with you. You wouldn’t do that after calling out others for doing that, would you? Your head isn’t stuck somewhere, is it?
Who denied there are mental heath issues due to the lockdown? But as I’ve said before, how do you know what mental health issues would arise of greater death and devastation? How do you know the anxiety is not a direct result of the hundreds of thousands of hospitalizations (and deaths)? Those people have families and friends, you know.
You keep saying many young and healthy people have been hospitalized and died when it's simply not true. The overwhelming majority of young people who have been hospitalized have preexisting conditions, that means that those who don't have preexisting conditions shouldn't be living in fear of getting the virus.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #256 on: May 25, 2020, 11:26:36 PM »
Prescriptions for anti-anxiety increased by 900k, that's 9 for every death in the country. Antidepressants increased by 2.5M, or 25 for every death. Theres no way anywhere near that number is caused by people who lost loved ones.
I don’t deny that it’s quite reasonable to assume that a continued lockdown is bad for mental health. But you don’t know how many are due to deaths and hospitalizations of loved ones or the fear of that occurring to them. You certainly don’t know what it would look like if we let hundreds of thousands more die.

I couldn’t read the article so don’t know what the numbers say. But it’d be interesting to know how many prescribed were directly caused by friends and loved ones of hospitalized patients or deceased. Certainly you’re aware that many people who suddenly lose a loved one are prescribed antidepressants and sleeping medication?
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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #257 on: May 25, 2020, 11:28:32 PM »
You keep saying many young and healthy people have been hospitalized and died when it's simply not true. The overwhelming majority of young people who have been hospitalized have preexisting conditions, that means that those who don't have preexisting conditions shouldn't be living in fear of getting the virus.
Per the CDC, there have been more COVID patients hospitalized between 18-64 than 65+. Almost half of those are 49 or younger.

“preexisting conditions” aren’t always known prior, and obesity is considered a significant comorbidity.
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Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #258 on: May 25, 2020, 11:30:01 PM »
You certainly don’t know what it would look like if we let hundreds of thousands more die.
Who is letting?

Offline avromie7

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #259 on: May 25, 2020, 11:30:38 PM »
I don’t deny that it’s quite reasonable to assume that a continued lockdown is bad for mental health.
You were definitely denying it a few weeks ago.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.