Author Topic: yeshivas that are open  (Read 56996 times)

Offline yaakov35

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #280 on: May 25, 2020, 11:57:54 PM »


Per the CDC, there have been more COVID patients hospitalized between 18-64 than 65+.

You almost had me there.... talk about a play on words. Just shows how biased people can be, wild. 18-49 was on average 30% of the 40% of total hospitalizations 18-64 group. So that's roughly 12% of total hospitalizations this isn't even talking about deaths or people put on ventilators. Way to spin a story

Offline Afrages6

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #281 on: May 26, 2020, 12:02:37 AM »
This isn’t super relevant but the OP did not specify age or condition of the person. Yes, it’s reasonable to assume the person is not elderly or immune-compromised but there is a big range between a twenty something perfectly fit strong man in the prime of his health with zero health conditions and a 95 year old man with a weak heart and diabetes. What about a 37 year old overweight gentleman with a slight history of hypertension? Are they “living in fear” if they don’t want to contract the virus?
Regular healthy 26 year old who feels that getting exposed when he doesn’t have too isn’t a risk worth taking.

Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #282 on: May 26, 2020, 12:06:13 AM »

You almost had me there.... talk about a play on words. Just shows how biased people can be, wild. 18-49 was on average 30% of the 40% of total hospitalizations 18-64 group. So that's roughly 12% of total hospitalizations this isn't even talking about deaths or people put on ventilators. Way to spin a story
Sorry? Did I misunderstand that chart or mislead?
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Offline yaakov35

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #283 on: May 26, 2020, 12:07:09 AM »
Sorry? Did I misunderstand that chart or mislead?
Looks like a combination of both

Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #284 on: May 26, 2020, 12:07:26 AM »
Sorry, I can't sit thru all your posts now.
Here you go
Correct. But in the interim the case for mental health being a reason *not* to lockdown cannot be a contributing factor to override the case for lives as you can make an equally compelling case for mental health being a reason *to* lockdown. Should research prove that it’ll be worse under lockdown, then it can be used as a contributing rationale.
Now do I get to hurl an accusation about something you ostensibly said and the onus is on you to prove you *didn’t* say it?
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Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #285 on: May 26, 2020, 12:09:24 AM »
Looks like a combination of both
Please explain. I skimmed through the chart, thought I understood it, and clearly described that. Unless I misread it. If I did, please explain. I took a cursory look at it earlier and then quoted it. I can go back and double check soon.
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Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #286 on: May 26, 2020, 12:14:45 AM »

You almost had me there.... talk about a play on words. Just shows how biased people can be, wild. 18-49 was on average 30% of the 40% of total hospitalizations 18-64 group. So that's roughly 12% of total hospitalizations this isn't even talking about deaths or people put on ventilators. Way to spin a story
What are you talking about? I see this.

Total hospitalizations for the data set:
18-49: 5,356
50-64: 6,561
65+: 9,984

What did I misread?
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Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #287 on: May 26, 2020, 12:16:52 AM »
What are you talking about? I see this.

Total hospitalizations for the data set:
18-49: 5,356
50-64: 6,561
65+: 9,984

What did I misread?
@yaakov35
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #288 on: May 26, 2020, 12:16:57 AM »
Are you saying tens of thousands of young healthy people died?

He didn't say that tens of thousands of young people died. But you got me curious, so here's a stat I found.
Approximately 4% of NYC deaths were under age 44. If extrapolated to the US, that's 4k deaths. If extrapolated to the world, that's 14k deaths.
Visibly Jewish

Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #289 on: May 26, 2020, 12:22:39 AM »
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=115050.msg2261520#msg2261520

You almost had me there.... talk about a play on words. Just shows how biased people can be, wild. 18-49 was on average 30% of the 40% of total hospitalizations 18-64 group. So that's roughly 12% of total hospitalizations this isn't even talking about deaths or people put on ventilators. Way to spin a story

My numbers have now been questioned by 2 posters so if anybody sees a discrepancy between what I said and what the chart says please enlighten me. I’m starting to doubt myself but I don’t see it.
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Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #290 on: May 26, 2020, 12:26:54 AM »
What are you talking about? I see this.

Total hospitalizations for the data set:
18-49: 5,356
50-64: 6,561
65+: 9,984

What did I misread?
Here’s an article that says the same thing
https://contemporaryclinic.pharmacytimes.com/news-views/cdc-55-of-covid-19-hospitalized-patients-are-64-years-old-or-younger
I’m starting to think that as usual, @yaakov35 is just being a troll.. I see @yungermanchik deleted his post as well

You almost had me there.... talk about a play on words. Just shows how biased people can be, wild. 18-49 was on average 30% of the 40% of total hospitalizations 18-64 group. So that's roughly 12% of total hospitalizations this isn't even talking about deaths or people put on ventilators. Way to spin a story
Looks like a combination of both
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Offline Lurker

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #291 on: May 26, 2020, 12:32:18 AM »
https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=115050.msg2261520#msg2261520
My numbers have now been questioned by 2 posters so if anybody sees a discrepancy between what I said and what the chart says please enlighten me. I’m starting to doubt myself but I don’t see it.

I must be looking at different numbers, because my totals are different:

0-49: 4294
50-64: 5304
65+: 8538


Technically, there are more hospitalizations under 65 than over 65, so you were not inaccurate. However, if you adjust the dividing age between younger and older people to 50 years old, the numbers tell a very different story. The risk of hospitalization in younger people (under 50) is much, much less.

That said, I don't like any of those numbers, because a) they are low overall and I don't believe they are representative of the actual hospitalizations, and b) because younger people are more likely to ride out lesser symptoms at home, while older people are more likely to go at the first symptom. This doesn't show who was there with serious cases and who was held for observation for precautions and comorbidities.

ETA: I refreshed the page and it gave me different graphs. I'm not gonna update the numbers, but I think my points still stand.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 12:47:30 AM by Lurker »
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #292 on: May 26, 2020, 12:39:31 AM »
Ignores that 5% of people are spreading 80% of infections and why so many here have just one spouse with IgG.
The frum community was exposed to so called superspreaders purim time as well. These individuals went to purim parties, minyanim, funerals, weddings etc. Most of the frum community had exposure to these individuals. Thousands of Lakewood residents spent hours in one beis medrash in BMG purim night, to give one example. Many contracted the illness, yet others in the same setting did not. Some perhaps just lucked out. Others may have had some form of prior immunity. That leaves a relatively  smaller potential population to spread the disease to. That impacts secondary spread etc.

Then you have to factor in the precautions that even the more cavalier frum people are taking which further limits the ability of the virus to spread. So taking a guy who has infected 10 others in a vulnerable population and then plunking him down in Lakewood today is going to produce a very different result that what took place purim.

Offline yaakov35

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #293 on: May 26, 2020, 12:41:59 AM »
What are you talking about? I see this.

Total hospitalizations for the data set:
18-49: 5,356
50-64: 6,561
65+: 9,984

What did I misread?
18-64 is 54% of hospitalizions. 18-49 is 44% of the 18-64, therefore 18-49 is 24% of total hospitalizations. I didn't read numbers on the bottom so I was off....
By grouping it all together you came out with a misconstrued statement, which is very misleading
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 12:45:32 AM by yaakov35 »

Offline yesitsme

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Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #295 on: May 26, 2020, 02:52:17 AM »
18-64 is 54% of hospitalizions. 18-49 is 44% of the 18-64, therefore 18-49 is 24% of total hospitalizations. I didn't read numbers on the bottom so I was off....
By grouping it all together you came out with a misconstrued statement, which is very misleading
Really now. Please point to the statement that was misleading or “misconstrued”. I was perfectly accurate in what I said, and linked to a chart that proved my point. This is what I said
Per the CDC, there have been more COVID patients hospitalized between 18-64 than 65+. Almost half of those are 49 or younger.
Now are you going to admit your mistake and take back your garbage accusation or are you going to continue doubling down?

This is the 3rd time in the last page that I was falsely accused. Talk about
You almost had me there.... talk about a play on words. Just shows how biased people can be, wild. Way to spin a story

Methinks that says something about the underlying strength of certain peoples’ arguments.
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Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #296 on: May 26, 2020, 02:58:46 AM »
The frum community was exposed to so called superspreaders purim time as well. These individuals went to purim parties, minyanim, funerals, weddings etc. Most of the frum community had exposure to these individuals. Thousands of Lakewood residents spent hours in one beis medrash in BMG purim night, to give one example. Many contracted the illness, yet others in the same setting did not. Some perhaps just lucked out. Others may have had some form of prior immunity. That leaves a relatively  smaller potential population to spread the disease to. That impacts secondary spread etc.

Then you have to factor in the precautions that even the more cavalier frum people are taking which further limits the ability of the virus to spread. So taking a guy who has infected 10 others in a vulnerable population and then plunking him down in Lakewood today is going to produce a very different result that what took place purim.
Key word: MAY. You can’t extrapolate from a completely unproven theory that “that leaves a relatively smaller potential population”. People with antibodies, yes. Everyone else must be presumed vulnerable until you have strong reason to doubt that. No, the fact that they were exposed but not infected proves NOTHING, and people should stop insisting that it does, without a shred of science to back them up. It’s unreal how many people I’ve heard say with a straight face that “because they were exposed and didn’t catch it they must be immune”.

I agree with the rest of your post. *because* we are still practicing social distancing to a large extent we should produce a very different result. That goes away if we loosen many/most of the restrictions, then we will be a lot closer to the typical vulnerable population. Certainly those with antibodies should help, and the question remains what percentage they are and how exactly the immunity works.
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Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #297 on: May 26, 2020, 03:02:27 AM »
I must be looking at different numbers, because my totals are different:

0-49: 4294
50-64: 5304
65+: 8538


Technically, there are more hospitalizations under 65 than over 65, so you were not inaccurate. However, if you adjust the dividing age between younger and older people to 50 years old, the numbers tell a very different story. The risk of hospitalization in younger people (under 50) is much, much less.

That said, I don't like any of those numbers, because a) they are low overall and I don't believe they are representative of the actual hospitalizations, and b) because younger people are more likely to ride out lesser symptoms at home, while older people are more likely to go at the first symptom. This doesn't show who was there with serious cases and who was held for observation for precautions and comorbidities.

ETA: I refreshed the page and it gave me different graphs. I'm not gonna update the numbers, but I think my points still stand.
My point was that many many younger people contracted serious illness. If most will ride out their illness at home that just drives my point home further.. in no way was my statement misleading. I very clearly stated that. A very significant number of people 18-49 are being hospitalized. No, it’s not “negligible”. They make up a large percentage of total hospitalizations.
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Offline S209

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #298 on: May 26, 2020, 10:51:48 AM »
Looks like a combination of both
In summation: You misread the chart, misled, accused me of doing exactly that, and then refused to admit it when called out. Got it.

Crazy how every thread that anything to do with corona, just ends up with bashing and belittling people. Really sad
@yaakov35

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Re: yeshivas that are open
« Reply #299 on: May 26, 2020, 11:40:51 AM »
Please point to the statement that was misleading
This
Technically, there are more hospitalizations under 65 than over 65, so you were not inaccurate. However, if you adjust the dividing age between younger and older people to 50 years old, the numbers tell a very different story. The risk of hospitalization in younger people (under 50) is much, much less.
Feelings don't care about your facts