Author Topic: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition  (Read 162858 times)

Offline S209

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #920 on: December 03, 2020, 01:58:53 PM »
We. As in anyone participating in the discussion and bringing up symptoms (whether symptomatic or asymptomatic).

Exactly. Such a study would be a simple one to conduct, and there are tens of thousands (probably a lot more) of people around the globe being sent to isolation due to exposure. All that needs to happen to understand the effects better is daily testing of significant sample.
Yes, but there hasn’t been a study conducted to date that shows either result (AFAIK). So why would we call this approach any more based on “science” than the original approach (which was based on people exhibiting symptoms 2-14 days from exposure)?
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #921 on: December 03, 2020, 02:05:12 PM »
Yes, but there hasn’t been a study conducted to date that shows either result (AFAIK). So why would we call this approach any more based on “science” than the original approach (which was based on people exhibiting symptoms 2-14 days from exposure)?

See my edit above.

Was there indeed no such study conducted?

#MostPoliticizedVirusEver
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Offline S209

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #922 on: December 03, 2020, 02:33:37 PM »
See my edit above.

Was there indeed no such study conducted?

#MostPoliticizedVirusEver
If no study was conducted, that would mean no scientists with any political affiliations chose to conduct it. Was one?
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Offline biobook

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #923 on: December 03, 2020, 02:40:51 PM »
Let's take a group of people with a known exposure to a positive case, isolate them for two weeks to prevent a second exposure, and conduct repeated PCR tests during this time to determine how long it takes for the first positive test to appear.


Exactly. Such a study would be a simple one to conduct, and there are tens of thousands (probably a lot more) of people around the globe being sent to isolation due to exposure. All that needs to happen to understand the effects better is daily testing of significant sample.

With almost a year of global turmoil over this pandemic, one would imagine that this is one of the first things people determining policy would want to know.

So the reason you want this study to be done is so that people could exit isolation more rapidly after exposure, right?  I don't see why you would expect that to be "one of the first things" policymakers would want to know.  True, tens of thousands of possibly infected people are sent to isolation, but 64 million people have been definitely infected, and identifying and caring for that group takes priority in determining policy. 

It wouldn't surprise me if the study you suggest has NOT been done, because labs have been overwhelmed in analyzing tests of people who have symptoms and may need treatment, so it doesn't make sense to use the tests to research your question, let alone use the tests for asymptomatic people who simply want to leave isolation.

But I'll search and see what I can find.

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #924 on: December 03, 2020, 02:44:10 PM »
Not a study, but I personally know more than one person that happened to.

OK. Can you describe the details?
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #925 on: December 03, 2020, 05:50:40 PM »
OK. Can you describe the details?
Very simple. They quarantined due to exposure and took tests after 2-3 days and then later had symptoms and tested positive.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #926 on: December 03, 2020, 06:47:07 PM »
Very simple. They quarantined due to exposure and took tests after 2-3 days and then later had symptoms and tested positive.

So they didn't test on day 4 and 5?
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #927 on: December 03, 2020, 06:55:14 PM »
So the reason you want this study to be done is so that people could exit isolation more rapidly after exposure, right?  I don't see why you would expect that to be "one of the first things" policymakers would want to know.  True, tens of thousands of possibly infected people are sent to isolation, but 64 million people have been definitely infected, and identifying and caring for that group takes priority in determining policy. 

Stopping the spread with minimal damage to people's lives should be high on the list of policy makers. We aren't talking about China and Iran where there is 0 respect for human rights, and a totalitarian regime will just weld people into their homes. If that were the case, put the entire population on lockdown for 30 days and the thing is eradicated!

Where did 14 days come from? Why not 15, 16, or more? If a reliable study can be conducted, a more accurate number of safe days can be concluded. An operation like they had in Slovakia could be prime grounds for such a study.

It wouldn't surprise me if the study you suggest has NOT been done, because labs have been overwhelmed in analyzing tests of people who have symptoms and may need treatment, so it doesn't make sense to use the tests to research your question, let alone use the tests for asymptomatic people who simply want to leave isolation.
Now you are talking money and politics. If none of those were a consideration, investing in massive testing would probably yield much better bang for the buck than current methods and races to develop vaccines in record-breaking time. But there are money and political reasons not to go that route.

But I'll search and see what I can find.
Greatly appreciated.

I would love to also see a real scientific study of what's going on in Williamsburg and Crown Heights (and presumably also KJ, and possibly also Boro Park and Monsey). Official "science" or not, there are observable facts that cannot be ignored. (and it seems like the Gedalia Society has evaporated into oblivion as far as this is concerned, once they couldn't argue with the observable facts any longer).
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #928 on: December 03, 2020, 07:00:39 PM »
Now you are talking money and politics. If none of those were a consideration, investing in massive testing would probably yield much better bang for the buck than current methods and races to develop vaccines in record-breaking time. But there are money and political reasons not to go that route.
Greatly appreciated.

I would love to also see a real scientific study of what's going on in Williamsburg and Crown Heights (and presumably also KJ, and possibly also Boro Park and Monsey). Official "science" or not, there are observable facts that cannot be ignored. (and it seems like the Gedalia Society has evaporated into oblivion as far as this is concerned, once they couldn't argue with the observable facts any longer).
The US didn't invest in improving testing bc Trump wants less testing.

You claimed your 'observable facts' already in May. It's all anecdotal and your perception has been proven false.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #929 on: December 03, 2020, 07:10:11 PM »
Where did 14 days come from? Why not 15, 16, or more? If a reliable study can be conducted, a more accurate number of safe days can be concluded. An operation like they had in Slovakia could be prime grounds for such a study.
It has been known since February that the incubation period is 2-14 days.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #930 on: December 03, 2020, 07:12:12 PM »
The US didn't invest in improving testing bc Trump wants less testing.

You claimed your 'observable facts' already in May. It's all anecdotal and your perception has been proven false.

You, my dear sir, are biased beyond your own recognition. Your first claim is more baseless than my allegations, and your second claim is without any support for said "proof".
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #931 on: December 03, 2020, 07:15:07 PM »
It has been known since February that the incubation period is 2-14 days.

Yet in February testing was scant. Tests have improved and become widely available. It begs to be properly studied what is the shortest period of isolation really needed for safety.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #932 on: December 03, 2020, 07:21:53 PM »
You, my dear sir, are biased beyond your own recognition. Your first claim is more baseless than my allegations, and your second claim is without any support for said "proof".
Trump sets policy for the US. Trump has said many times he asked if we can do less test.
I won't waste my energy searching for your posts, since we both know nothing will change your opinion, but stop kidding yourself that your observations have anything to do with facts. This isn't the first time you 'saw' herd immunity.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #933 on: December 03, 2020, 09:50:55 PM »
I won't waste my energy searching for your posts, since we both know nothing will change your opinion, but stop kidding yourself that your observations have anything to do with facts. This isn't the first time you 'saw' herd immunity.

I don't know about you, but when facts change, I do change my mind. I am also open to hear opposing viewpoints and will admit if I believe I am wrong.

Have you actually been to Crown Heights or Williamsburg and actually observed what goes on, before arguing?

The fact is that most people go around without masks and do not observe any type of physical distancing, regardless of setting (indoor, crowded, singing, etc.).

Another fact is that there haven't been any COVID-19 outbreaks or spikes in these communities. Some isolated cases - yes. But an outbreak of any significant magnitude - I haven't heard of any (and I know there are those that would rush to make it known if it did exist).

Another fact is that even the staunchest of advocates of listening to the doctors, has stopped wearing a mask, and is seen mingling with crowds without a mask.

Now make all the arguments you want to, but it might be a good idea to first visit these communities and observe things first hand.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #934 on: December 03, 2020, 10:00:28 PM »
I don't know about you, but when facts change, I do change my mind. I am also open to hear opposing viewpoints and will admit if I believe I am wrong.

Have you actually been to Crown Heights or Williamsburg and actually observed what goes on, before arguing?

The fact is that most people go around without masks and do not observe any type of physical distancing, regardless of setting (indoor, crowded, singing, etc.).

Another fact is that there haven't been any COVID-19 outbreaks or spikes in these communities. Some isolated cases - yes. But an outbreak of any significant magnitude - I haven't heard of any (and I know there are those that would rush to make it known if it did exist).

Another fact is that even the staunchest of advocates of listening to the doctors, has stopped wearing a mask, and is seen mingling with crowds without a mask.

Now make all the arguments you want to, but it might be a good idea to first visit these communities and observe things first hand.
The fallacy is that none of these observations prove the conclusion of herd immunity.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #935 on: December 03, 2020, 11:57:26 PM »
The fallacy is that none of these observations prove the conclusion of herd immunity.

Did I say anything about herd immunity recently, or more specifically in the context of the current discussion of begging for scientific studies of phenomena that can be studied by observation of large real world samples?

As I said above, you seem to be unaware of the extent to which your bias is affecting your arguments.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #936 on: December 04, 2020, 12:21:10 AM »
Did I say anything about herd immunity recently, or more specifically in the context of the current discussion of begging for scientific studies of phenomena that can be studied by observation of large real world samples?

As I said above, you seem to be unaware of the extent to which your bias is affecting your arguments.
You're not claiming herd immunity, only claiming it as a mysterious phenomena in the second part of the same sentence. Give me a break.

Being biased doesn't make me wrong. You're infinitely more biased than me, you've been parading a myriad of different pseudo 'theories' all to justify not wearing a mask, heaven forbid. My opinion has been constant since Covid started.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #937 on: December 04, 2020, 12:43:15 AM »
You're not claiming herd immunity, only claiming it as a mysterious phenomena in the second part of the same sentence. Give me a break.

Being biased doesn't make me wrong. You're infinitely more biased than me, you've been parading a myriad of different pseudo 'theories' all to justify not wearing a mask, heaven forbid. My opinion has been constant since Covid started.

Come and tour Crown Heights and Williamsburg, and then you'll be entitled to a break.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #938 on: December 04, 2020, 10:08:53 AM »
I would love to also see a real scientific study of what's going on in Williamsburg and Crown Heights (and presumably also KJ, and possibly also Boro Park and Monsey).

I believe by now KJ, BP, Monsey, and New Square are also experiencing practically the same. So he can come visit any or all of those communities to see for himself.

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #939 on: December 04, 2020, 02:10:21 PM »
I believe by now KJ, BP, Monsey, and New Square are also experiencing practically the same. So he can come visit any or all of those communities to see for himself.
I know of multiple classes in a Monsey school currently shut due to COVID cases. I also know a few people who’ve had COVID there in the last month.

As for BP, didn’t someone recently post something about 150 cases from a wedding?
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