Author Topic: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition  (Read 162916 times)

Offline TimT

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1000 on: December 09, 2020, 12:23:18 AM »
Immediately, or by June (when it will be freely available to all, hundreds of millions will have been vaccinated worldwide, and businesses will require certification to be serviced)?
Will enough get it to satisfy Comrade Linda Rosenthal

Offline S209

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1001 on: December 09, 2020, 12:33:24 AM »
Will enough get it to satisfy Comrade Linda Rosenthal
By June/July? Yes, definitely.
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Offline S209

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1002 on: December 09, 2020, 12:35:12 AM »
Now you’ll have people coming back for doubles & triples.
This discriminates against poor people by forcing them to vaccinate sooner than the rich
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Offline biobook

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1003 on: December 09, 2020, 02:41:34 AM »

Though it doesn't answer the specific study he wanted, which was "Let's take a group of people with a known exposure to a positive case, isolate them for two weeks to prevent a second exposure, and conduct repeated PCR tests during this time to determine how long it takes for the first positive test to appear." 

I haven't found any study to answer that particular question, but probably for good reason - it would be a waste of time and tests in pursuit of a point of information that is not really practically useful now.  More important is to monitor time since infection and possible symptoms, rather than testing for the virus.   


As to @biobook's assertion that such a study is a waste of time, that is beyond me. I would argue that it would be an extremely useful study, as it would enable improved accuracy of quarantine requirements, showing goodwill of kinds to people who are experiencing draconian measures, enabling more of a back-to-normal life, without any increased risk to public health. On the contrary, people are more likely to comply if they have a reasonable route to a quicker way out of it.
Maybe I'm still misunderstanding you. 
Until now, if someone had been exposed to a positive case, they were told to isolate for 14 days, and you wanted to do more testing, so they could leave isolation earlier.  But now the CDC okays leaving isolation on day 7 with a single test. 
I don't see how further testing could get you out of isolation earlier. 

Days 1-2 after exposure, a negative test just means that the virus hasn't yet multiplied enough to be measurable. 
Days 3-4 a negative test could be you weren't infected, but could be a false negative and you were infected, so you need to wait to see if symptoms occur, which are most likely by day 5.  If no symptoms on day 5, and a test is negative, you can leave isolation 2 days later.  (In practice, it may take 2 days just to get the results of the test.)  This hardly seems "draconian".
When do you think additional testing would be beneficial?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1004 on: December 09, 2020, 09:14:32 AM »
Maybe I'm still misunderstanding you. 
Until now, if someone had been exposed to a positive case, they were told to isolate for 14 days, and you wanted to do more testing, so they could leave isolation earlier.  But now the CDC okays leaving isolation on day 7 with a single test. 
I don't see how further testing could get you out of isolation earlier. 

Days 1-2 after exposure, a negative test just means that the virus hasn't yet multiplied enough to be measurable. 
Days 3-4 a negative test could be you weren't infected, but could be a false negative and you were infected, so you need to wait to see if symptoms occur, which are most likely by day 5.  If no symptoms on day 5, and a test is negative, you can leave isolation 2 days later.  (In practice, it may take 2 days just to get the results of the test.)  This hardly seems "draconian".
When do you think additional testing would be beneficial?

Isolation is a draconian measure.

Getting a large scale study with daily testing could indicate the point at which it is safe to exit isolation. Once that is known, just test everyone who is sent to isolation at that point and release all negatives.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1005 on: December 09, 2020, 11:14:40 AM »
Isolation is a draconian measure.

Getting a large scale study with daily testing could indicate the point at which it is safe to exit isolation. Once that is known, just test everyone who is sent to isolation at that point and release all negatives.
But where are you thinking it may be able to be streamlined?
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Offline biobook

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Offline biobook

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1008 on: December 09, 2020, 12:59:31 PM »
Isolation is a draconian measure.

Could you expand on that?  What about staying home for a week seems unusually severe or repressive?  It's not unusual for someone to do that, when sick with the flu/bronchitis/pneumonia.  And it seems like a small request, considering the many people who've been somewhat isolated for 8 months.

Quote
Getting a large scale study with daily testing could indicate the point at which it is safe to exit isolation. Once that is known, just test everyone who is sent to isolation at that point and release all negatives.
That's exactly what we have.  It's safe to exit isolation at 7 days.  Everyone is sent to isolation, tested at 5-7 days, and if negative, they're released.  It's still not clear what additional information you're looking for.

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1009 on: December 09, 2020, 08:44:13 PM »
It’s very wrong. Let capitalism do its part. When vaccines are freely available to all the government’s job is over.

I still think capitalism will soon enough make it hard to function without being vaccinated.
Good luck traveling, attending events, and sending your children to school.

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1010 on: December 09, 2020, 09:03:34 PM »
It seems you didn’t understand what I meant by “let capitalism do its part”.

I meant exactly what I said later: capitalism will cause enough people to become vaccinated without the government butting in.
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Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1011 on: December 09, 2020, 09:10:30 PM »
Agreed. I think a government mandate is a terrible idea, mostly because at 95% efficacy you’re safe enough without mandating that others comply.

I still think capitalism will soon enough make it hard to function without being vaccinated. Good luck traveling, attending events, and sending your children to school.
Correct (but don’t tell @henche ).

Having the government not allowing you to travel, send your kids to school, or attend an event without being vaccinated and then calling subsequent vaccination rates non interventionist capitalism is oxymoronic.

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1012 on: December 09, 2020, 09:12:40 PM »
Having the government not allowing you to travel, send your kids to school, or attend an event without being vaccinated and then calling subsequent vaccination rates non interventionist capitalism is oxymoronic.
He's claiming the government won't forbid anything and the businesses will exercise their Capitalist rights and interest to only serve people who are vaccinating.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1013 on: December 09, 2020, 09:17:14 PM »
Having the government not allowing you to travel, send your kids to school, or attend an event without being vaccinated and then calling subsequent vaccination rates non interventionist capitalism is oxymoronic.
That’s not what I said.
He's claiming the government won't forbid anything and the businesses will exercise their Capitalist rights and interest to only serve people who are vaccinating.
Exactly
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Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1014 on: December 09, 2020, 09:29:07 PM »
He's claiming the government won't forbid anything and the businesses will exercise their Capitalist rights and interest to only serve people who are vaccinating.

Businesses exercised their capitalist right to keep middle seats empty on fights, to prevent infection and to keep their customers feeling secure. Then, when booking levels rose above 66% of the seats, they exercised their capitalist right to summarily throw these policies out the window at 38,000 feet.


Between 35%-55% of Americans are not really interested in taking vaccine now. I would guess that with a 95% efficacy, at least 80% of vaccinated people would feel perfectly comfortable going to a gathering or traveling on mass transit without vaccine mandates. The laissez faire capitalist math from a business perspective is pretty simple - vaccine mandates are bad for business. I wouldn't bet on them enforcing it without governmental regulation. In fact, I'd wager heavily against it.

Offline Dan

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1015 on: December 09, 2020, 09:31:12 PM »
Businesses exercised their capitalist right to keep middle seats empty on fights, to prevent infection and to keep their customers feeling secure. Then, when booking levels rose above 66% of the seats, they exercised their capitalist right to summarily throw these policies out the window at 38,000 feet.


Between 35%-55% of Americans are not really interested in taking vaccine now. I would guess that with a 95% efficacy, at least 80% of vaccinated people would feel perfectly comfortable going to a gathering or traveling on mass transit without vaccine mandates. The laissez faire capitalist math from a business perspective is pretty simple - vaccine mandates are bad for business. I wouldn't bet on them enforcing it without governmental regulation. In fact, I'd wager heavily against it.
You can also opine that mask mandates are bad for business, and yet all of the airlines think the opposite is true.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1016 on: December 09, 2020, 09:34:53 PM »
You can also opine that mask mandates are bad for business, and yet all of the airlines think the opposite is true.
A vaccine allows anyone concerned to get one and be done when of the person next to them is infected. Without mask mandates they are stuck.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1017 on: December 09, 2020, 09:38:12 PM »
A vaccine allows anyone concerned to get one and be done when of the person next to them is infected. Without mask mandates they are stuck.
Depends if the data holds up and how long the vaccines work for, but I agree with you in principle and posted it upthread.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1018 on: December 09, 2020, 09:39:33 PM »
Depends if the data holds up and how long the vaccines work for, but I agree with you in principle and posted it upthread.
If they don't work then there is no benefit in mandating them so either way there is no real reason for them to do it.
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Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
« Reply #1019 on: December 09, 2020, 09:42:28 PM »
If they don't work then there is no benefit in mandating them so either way there is no real reason for them to do it.
If the vaccines work 70% or they wane off it would make a huge difference how many people are vaccinated.
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