Author Topic: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19  (Read 32678 times)

Offline chevron

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #140 on: March 24, 2020, 01:01:00 PM »
While you and others were talking about this, the medical community did not do what it took to get things moving until it was that late. Once they did the rabbonim moved VERY fast and went, as you wrote, from 0-60 in 2 seconds. Until then it was not presented in a way that would have accomplished more than it did. On Sunday is when that finally changed and I knew then that things would move very fast.

Who is the medical community? Here they said that the local pediatrician supported keeping shulls open with social distancing.

So a pediatrician is an expert on infectious diseases?

as New York was being overwhelmed New Jersey in Lakewood was still business as usual again my question is how do you feel that a virus that just traveled 15,000 mi is not going to move 50 miles

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #141 on: March 24, 2020, 01:01:49 PM »
Who is the medical community? Here they said that the local pediatrician supported keeping shulls open with social distancing.

So a pediatrician is an expert on infectious diseases?

as New York was being overwhelmed New Jersey in Lakewood was still business as usual again my question is how do you feel that a virus that just traveled 15,000 mi is not going to move 50 miles
As I mentioned before, even in the 5T, where many institutions were following Rabbi Dr Glatt (an infectious disease specialist and one of the assistant rabbonim in YI of Woodmere), the concrete actions taken were happening much later than some here were advocating. YI of Woodmere itself I don't believe closed until Thursday night after Purim. It's really hard to say that rabbonim should be searching out the guidance of the CDC, or that they should be picking up the phone to Dr Fauci, or any other specialist. Every Rov has (or should have) people they turn to for guidance on things outside of their expertise. There simply were not the right, or maybe loud enough, voices calling for concrete institutional action early enough.

I would guess that 5T won't have been hit as hard in the end as some other places, and some of that is surely do to earlier action taken on the matter, but it's no picnic there either.

Offline chevron

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #142 on: March 24, 2020, 01:04:26 PM »
As I mentioned before, even in the 5T, where many institutions were following Rabbi Dr Glatt (an infectious disease specialist and one of the assistant rabbonim in YI of Woodmere), the concrete actions taken were happening much later than some here were advocating. YI of Woodmere itself I don't believe closed until Thursday night after Purim. It's really hard to say that rabbonim should be searching out the guidance of the CDC, or that they should be picking up the phone to Dr Fauci, or any other specialist. Every Rov has (or should have) people they turn to for guidance on things outside of their expertise. There simply were not the right, or maybe loud enough, voices calling for concrete institutional action early enough.

I would guess that 5T won't have been hit as hard in the end as some other places, and some of that is surely do to earlier action taken on the matter, but it's no picnic there either.

The nature of this whole virus is 0 to 60 and add into that the all the interactions etc

The reason it was too late to act by the time they did know was because of the whole situation that they could have seen was happening elsewhere as it was eating up Teaneck and then crown heights, BMG was open for business.

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #143 on: March 24, 2020, 01:04:28 PM »
Who is the medical community? Here they said that the local pediatrician supported keeping shulls open with social distancing.

So a pediatrician is an expert on infectious diseases?

as New York was being overwhelmed New Jersey in Lakewood was still business as usual again my question is how do you feel that a virus that just traveled 15,000 mi is not going to move 50 miles
I am not referring to him. When was the first time they heard from someone who knows about infectious diseases?

FTR, Lakewood did not shut down later than NY.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #144 on: March 24, 2020, 01:05:12 PM »
While you and others were talking about this, the medical community did not do what it took to get things moving until it was that late. Once they did the rabbonim moved VERY fast and went, as you wrote, from 0-60 in 2 seconds. Until then it was not presented in a way that would have accomplished more than it did. On Sunday is when that finally changed and I knew then that things would move very fast.

Dr Ditchek was in desperation mode Wednesday March 11th. All schools and shuls were aware. The less frum closed right away. The more frum didn't wake up until Sunday. Most had regular classes through Tuesday. Barely anyone took precautions beforehand. https://forward.com/news/national/441645/coronavirus-yeshiva-schools-close/
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Online aygart

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #145 on: March 24, 2020, 01:07:55 PM »
Dr Ditchek was in desperation mode Wednesday March 11th. All schools and shuls were aware. The less frum closed right away. The more frum didn't wake up until Sunday. Most had regular classes through Tuesday. Barely anyone took precautions beforehand. https://forward.com/news/national/441645/coronavirus-yeshiva-schools-close/

That is an extremely misleading article comparing Brooklyn Yeshivos to Westchester day schools.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #146 on: March 24, 2020, 01:09:38 PM »
That is an extremely misleading article comparing Brooklyn Yeshivos to Westchester day schools.

I didn't read the whole thing, just using to show the timeline I was mentioning.
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Online aygart

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #147 on: March 24, 2020, 01:12:34 PM »
Dr Ditchek was in desperation mode Wednesday March 11th. All schools and shuls were aware. The less frum closed right away. The more frum didn't wake up until Sunday. Most had regular classes through Tuesday. Barely anyone took precautions beforehand. https://forward.com/news/national/441645/coronavirus-yeshiva-schools-close/

I cannot answer about Brooklyn, but even that seems like one Doctor taking it seriously while others were not. Such a situation will take time. Had he built a consensus among the local medical community first hew would have been more successful. He is a doctor not an askan so he may not have understood the need for this.
(I will also note that his organization didn't take it seriously and had kids with medical issues at the MIA marathon on 2/9-right when MIA was a hotspot)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 01:21:45 PM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline moko

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #148 on: March 24, 2020, 01:24:42 PM »
Who is the medical community? Here they said that the local pediatrician supported keeping shulls open with social distancing.

So a pediatrician is an expert on infectious diseases?

as New York was being overwhelmed New Jersey in Lakewood was still business as usual again my question is how do you feel that a virus that just traveled 15,000 mi is not going to move 50 miles
A prominent epidemiologist advised Boston shuls that they could remain open if they followed his protocols.  Quite a few shuls remained open until a statement was issued that all shuls should close

Offline ah giten

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #149 on: March 24, 2020, 01:26:14 PM »
Some of these comments are making me sick. Can we at the very least agree to respectfully disagree especially at a time like this? Let's stop the blame game and try to do our best, both individually and as a klal. Bashing rabbanim will not bring us much needed zechusim.
This.

discussion is fine as long as we stay away from bashing Rabbanim.

Online cgr

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #150 on: March 24, 2020, 01:40:00 PM »
Village of KJ released a letter bashing Dr. Zelenko.

https://twitter.com/hasidic_1/status/1242496162042609667?s=20

Offline Luvisrael

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #151 on: March 24, 2020, 03:34:07 PM »
May I suggest people say some tehillm? My shul is having a (virtual) communal tehillim tonight at 9:30. Perakim: 20,91,121,130,142.

@Dan not sure if your interested in kickstarting this for the wider community?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 03:42:01 PM by Luvisrael »

Offline Baglach

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #152 on: March 24, 2020, 04:18:10 PM »
Village of KJ released a letter bashing Dr. Zelenko.

https://twitter.com/hasidic_1/status/1242496162042609667?s=20

Don't people realize the amount of lashon hora and rechilus being spread daily by all these WhatsApp groups, Twitter etc.
While many here are quick to bash rabanim, one thing is for sure chazal tell us any generation that the bes hamikdash wasn't build is as if it was destroyed, and as we all know the reason it was destroyed was sinas chinam and lashon hora.

Offline Luvisrael

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #153 on: March 24, 2020, 11:59:23 PM »
@S209 Was that post literal?

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #154 on: March 25, 2020, 12:13:52 AM »
With all the hate and finger pointing going on here it’s definitely a somber thread...

Offline ltttc

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #155 on: March 25, 2020, 12:16:31 AM »
With all the hate and finger pointing going on here it’s definitely a somber thread...
True. Might be appropriate for a mod to remove. Enough somber news w/o this thread  :(

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #156 on: March 25, 2020, 12:20:11 AM »
Our 2 best data sources, the diamond princess and South Korea, are both at a minimum of 1.4% death rate.
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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #157 on: March 25, 2020, 12:24:09 AM »
Our 2 best data sources, the diamond princess and South Korea, are both at a minimum of 1.4% death rate.
We are around 1.4%? That should go down with more testing, no?
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Offline Luvisrael

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #158 on: March 25, 2020, 12:26:27 AM »
True. Might be appropriate for a mod to remove. Enough somber news w/o this thread  :(
+1

Offline Dan

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #159 on: March 25, 2020, 12:29:55 AM »
We are around 1.4%? That should go down with more testing, no?
And up with more deaths of those tested.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.