Author Topic: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19  (Read 8838 times)

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2020, 01:11:25 AM »
I hate to say it, but I'm a little disappointed in the Gedolei Yisroel and Admurim. Throughout history, and up until the last 20-30 years or so, Jewish spiritual leaders were able to sense the danger, or at the very least recognize Emes when it was presented to them. It seems like the ball was dropped here. I understand the need for introspection and mussar, to see where we went wrong in our Avodas HaShem, but I also understand @chevron and @yuneeq being frustrated by leaders missing big time, and then trying to give mussar without accepting responsibility for not stepping up when lives were on the line.
When you find yourself agreeing with me more often than not, it's time for a cheshbon hanefesh.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2020, 01:12:26 AM »
The problem is they aren't politicians. Yes maybe they were hoping to keep yeshiva's and shulls open and bring merit to the world.

But they need to own up they need to say that they were wrong.

Otherwise orthodox Judaism has a serious crisis after this.

People will say "you knew! Why didn't you warn us"

I wasnít asking them to close. That was last week.
What about a month ago? No sanitizer? Not disinfecting the common areas?
Not telling sick people to stay home? Not telling the elderly to stay home?

They gave me excuses, but they didnít disagree.

Completely reckless.

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2020, 01:14:27 AM »
This conversation is reckless IMHO. Especially in a time like this. You have your personal grievances with institutions or shuls? Go ahead and take it up with them. Not on a public forum like this please.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2020, 01:16:24 AM »
funny how quick people are to blame the rabbis. Let me get this straight. Itís their fault because they knew and didnít warn you?

I warned them, didnít need them to warn me. And yes, they are to blame for not imposing basic rules in the shul that would have saved lives. They pretend as if things got so bad so quickly that we went from regular praying to full lockdown within 24 hours. Sorry, thatís not reality. Things were bad at least 2-3 weeks earlier. And they couldnít ignore it when the hospitals started filling up with Jews.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2020, 01:18:23 AM »
This conversation is reckless IMHO. Especially in a time like this. You have your personal grievances with institutions or shuls? Go ahead and take it up with them. Not on a public forum like this please.

You have your personal grievances with my posts? Take it up with me. I say it as I see it. And I see complete recklessness and disregard for our communityís health across the spectrum.

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2020, 01:19:27 AM »
You have your personal grievances with my posts? Take it up with me. I say it as I see it. And I see complete recklessness and disregard for our communityís health across the spectrum.
I already did.  Maybe donít be so quick to say it as you see it...

Offline yuneeq

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2020, 01:19:48 AM »
-1. As soon as "they" knew, "they" warned

-4

They knew but buried head in sand. In my actual experience.

Offline ah giten

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2020, 01:20:03 AM »
I warned them, didnít need them to warn me. And yes, they are to blame for not imposing basic rules in the shul that would have saved lives. They pretend as if things got so bad so quickly that we went from regular praying to full lockdown within 24 hours. Sorry, thatís not reality. Things were bad at least 2-3 weeks earlier. And they couldnít ignore it when the hospitals started filling up with Jews.
Rabbis and so is any person in a position of power, don't listen to just anybody.
They can't listen to anybody.
I don't know ur relationship to them, and ur expertise in the medical field.
If you wanted to do something, you should've spoken to hatzula, they were still laughing a week and a half ago.
If you would convince them, they would go straight to the people in power to enforce.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2020, 01:22:33 AM »
I hate to say it, but I'm a little disappointed in the Gedolei Yisroel and Admurim. Throughout history, and up until the last 20-30 years or so, Jewish spiritual leaders were able to sense the danger, or at the very least recognize Emes when it was presented to them. It seems like the ball was dropped here. I understand the need for introspection and mussar, to see where we went wrong in our Avodas HaShem, but I also understand @chevron and @yuneeq being frustrated by leaders missing big time, and then trying to give mussar without accepting responsibility for not stepping up when lives were on the line.

If I hear another rabbi give a ďdonít panicĒ speech again I might go postal.

Offline ah giten

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2020, 01:23:14 AM »
As soon as there was an outcry from Hatzula, a lot of Rabbis jumped on board to enforce.
Some sooner some later.
But if the ones in charge of these things are laughing, why should the Rabbi think abt it.
He's only knows what the experts tell him. And again, he can't listen to just people in the kehilla.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2020, 01:25:14 AM »
Rabbis and so is any person in a position of power, don't listen to just anybody.
They can't listen to anybody.
I don't know ur relationship to them, and ur expertise in the medical field.
If you wanted to do something, you should've spoken to hatzula, they were still laughing a week and a half ago.
If you would convince them, they would go straight to the people in power to enforce.

One rabbi said he didnít want to scare anyone. Not that he didnít believe me. Another said people know what to do for themselves. (But never mind the 10 people coughing). Another said it was no big deal. So thatís the only one that didnít agree even if I may have been able to prove him wrong.

They all deserve blame. They are all leaders and should behave as such.

Offline ah giten

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2020, 01:28:05 AM »
One rabbi said he didnít want to scare anyone. Not that he didnít believe me. Another said people know what to do for themselves. (But never mind the 10 people coughing). Another said it was no big deal. So thatís the only one that didnít agree even if I may have been able to prove him wrong.

They all deserve blame. They are all leaders and should behave as such.
Again. If he came out and enforced rules when they weren't popular, they would be fools.
then again, only CNN was really concerned, and alot of health officials were laughing, including lical DRs and Hatzulah.
I don't see why the rabbi is to blame.

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2020, 01:30:21 AM »
I hate to say it, but I'm a little disappointed in the Gedolei Yisroel and Admurim. Throughout history, and up until the last 20-30 years or so, Jewish spiritual leaders were able to sense the danger, or at the very least recognize Emes when it was presented to them. It seems like the ball was dropped here. I understand the need for introspection and mussar, to see where we went wrong in our Avodas HaShem, but I also understand @chevron and @yuneeq being frustrated by leaders missing big time, and then trying to give mussar without accepting responsibility for not stepping up when lives were on the line.
There is a concept we find in Chazal that Hashem deliberately hid things from tzadikim so that they should not sense impending danger.
Is there a clever way to solicit likes without sounding like a classless wannabee?

Offline ah giten

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2020, 01:31:38 AM »
I hate to say it, but I'm a little disappointed in the Gedolei Yisroel and Admurim. Throughout history, and up until the last 20-30 years or so, Jewish spiritual leaders were able to sense the danger, or at the very least recognize Emes when it was presented to them.
but if you wanna go in this direction, that they should sense the danger, and recognize Emes, I'm sorry, but..

Offline yuneeq

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2020, 01:31:50 AM »
As soon as there was an outcry from Hatzula, a lot of Rabbis jumped on board to enforce.
Some sooner some later.
But if the ones in charge of these things are laughing, why should the Rabbi think abt it.
He's only knows what the experts tell him. And again, he can't listen to just people in the kehilla.

Never mind that when the rabbonim started talking about it, they gave 45 minute speeches about how we are overreacting because some people are buying too much toilet paper, and that itís assur to panic, etc. Most of them completely skipped over the being cautious aspect, and most people were still going about their daily lives until last week. Only a few days later did they change their tone.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 01:35:26 AM by yuneeq »