This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19

[yuneeq]

There is a concept we find in Chazal that Hashem deliberately hid things from tzadikim so that they should not sense impending danger.

This is the only possible answer that can give me solace.

[yuneeq]

Again. If he came out and enforced rules when they weren't popular, they would be fools.
then again, only CNN was really concerned, and alot of health officials were laughing, including lical DRs and Hatzulah.
I don't see why the rabbi is to blame.

The CDC implemented these suggestions a few weeks before hand, it’s not crazy to follow their lead. If it is crazy, perhaps we have a bigger issue.

[chevron]

Again. If he came out and enforced rules when they weren't popular, they would be fools.
then again, only CNN was really concerned, and alot of health officials were laughing, including lical DRs and Hatzulah.
I don't see why the rabbi is to blame.

Hatzala members are EMT's, often more. Depending on the community, their mindset May differ etc. That's not always competent medical advice

On this board, till recently, Lakewood as usual was justified "no reported cases" it's all because of kol hatorah one poster said.

You knew

I applaud mesiras nefesh to daven and learn, but don't say they didn't know.

If they didn't know then they are getting advise from  the wrong people

[yuneeq]

Hatzala members are EMT's, often more. Depending on the community, their mindset May differ etc. That's not always competent medical advice

On this board, till recently, Lakewood as usual was justified "no reported cases" it's all because of kol hatorah one poster said.

You knew

I applaud mesiras nefesh to daven and learn, but don't say they didn't know.

If they didn't know then they are getting advise from  the wrong people

Exactly. It’s been in the Jewish community since late February. All anyone had to do was read anything the epidemiologists were saying. You don’t even need a medical degree to decipher their warnings. We all thought we were invincible because we’re not modox and we don’t live in Westchester. As if.

[ah giten]

Never mind that when the rabbonim started talking about it, they gave 45 minute speeches about how we are overreacting because some people are buying too much toilet paper, and that it’s assur to panic, etc. Most of them completely skipped over the being cautious aspect, and most people were still going annoy their daily lives. Only a few days later did they change their tone.

Until last week Sunday (ולא עד בכלל), Haztula was still laughing.
then things changed.
my Rabbi doesn't watch TV, and doens't have whatsapp, he listens to the people around him for info. If they said, quoting a EMTP from Haztulah, that's its just panic and overreacting, this is all the Rabbi would know, from a TRUSTED source.

[chevron]

Rabbis and so is any person in a position of power, don't listen to just anybody.
They can't listen to anybody.
I don't know ur relationship to them, and ur expertise in the medical field.
If you wanted to do something, you should've spoken to hatzula, they were still laughing a week and a half ago.
If you would convince them, they would go straight to the people in power to enforce.

My Rav listened , the shull acted fast, we installed hand sanitizer pumps everywhere, we made changes 1 month ago.

On March 3rd the hand sanitizer pumps were installed everywhere.

That was 3 weeks ago, in Miami.  Common, how could you not think that a disease That started in China that went to Europe and the middle East and then made its way to New York was not going to catch up to you in a couple of days?

[ah giten]

Hatzala members are EMT's, often more. Depending on the community, their mindset May differ etc. That's not always competent medical advice

On this board, till recently, Lakewood as usual was justified "no reported cases" it's all because of kol hatorah one poster said.

You knew

I applaud mesiras nefesh to daven and learn, but don't say they didn't know.

If they didn't know then they are getting advise from  the wrong people

After all, it was their failure.
They have the say in our communities on health issues.
they were silent, and even downplaying.
Some even said that in the messages, when they started getting hysterical.

[chevron]

Until last week Sunday (ולא עד בכלל), Haztula was still laughing.
then things changed.
my Rabbi doesn't watch TV, and doens't have whatsapp, he listens to the people around him for info. If they said, quoting a EMTP from Haztulah, that's its just panic and overreacting, this is all the Rabbi would know, from a TRUSTED source.

That's the problem. There needs to be serious questions, rabbi's should not be acting on a global pandemic because some hatzala emtp told him.. you're supposed to be consulting with competent doctor's.

Do you get your investment advice for the mikva talk?!

[yuneeq]

Until last week Sunday (ולא עד בכלל), Haztula was still laughing.
then things changed.
my Rabbi doesn't watch TV, and doens't have whatsapp, he listens to the people around him for info. If they said, quoting a EMTP from Haztulah, that's its just panic and overreacting, this is all the Rabbi would know, from a TRUSTED source.

Hatzalah was asking people to cancel Purim parties. Do you not remember?

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1838636/just-in-hatzolah-of-new-york-encourages-people-to-cancel-large-purim-gatherings.html

[ah giten]

That's the problem. There needs to be serious questions, rabbi's should not be acting on a global pandemic because some hatzala emtp told him.. you're supposed to be consulting with competent doctor's.

Do you get your investment advice for the mikva talk?!

Local DR's were also saying it's nothing.
If everybody singing the same tone you accept it.
C'mon, even Cuomo and Trump's didn't see this coming.
the reason they didn't impose these rules a bit earlier.

[Lurker]

There is a concept we find in Chazal that Hashem deliberately hid things from tzadikim so that they should not sense impending danger.

Sure, but then let's recognize that this is probably bigger than gay pride parades and buying German cars, too.

[chevron]

After all, it was their failure.
They have the say in our communities on health issues.
they were silent, and even downplaying.
Some even said that in the messages, when they started getting hysterical.

Hatzala is incredible organization and it's members are Moser nefesh and I admire them immensely even if my favorite hatzala member is no longer "immense"

I just can't see why your Rabbi doesn't consult the CDC or a competent doctor

[ah giten]

Hatzalah was asking people to cancel Purim parties. Do you not remember?

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1838636/just-in-hatzolah-of-new-york-encourages-people-to-cancel-large-purim-gatherings.html

yes, i also remember this
"First, do not panic! Although this virus is contagious, it is usually not life-threatening in healthy people. Symptoms can range from mild to severe, and some people don’t have any symptoms at all."
from the article.

[chevron]

Local DR's were also saying it's nothing.
If everybody singing the same tone you accept it.
C'mon, even Cuomo and Trump's didn't see this coming.
the reason they didn't impose these rules a bit earlier.

So only I saw it coming ?

And the members of Congress who sold a few million in stock

[chevron]

yes, i also remember this
"First, do not panic! Although this virus is contagious, it is usually not life-threatening in healthy people. Symptoms can range from mild to severe, and some people don’t have any symptoms at all."
from the article.

And at the same time I was posting articles from Italy showing how people on the ICU were perfectly healthy and some as young as 30

[Yehuda57]

Hatzalah notice from March 8.

I'm admit, I didn't see it then. What I did see then was this other letter.

[skyguy918]

The point is, this mageifa didn't start now when the people close to us are R"L falling ill. It started in November in China. If Hashem was sending a sign, we were supposed to start picking up on it then. If not then, then at the very least when it slammed into Italy. But no, we still ran around on Purim acting like there is not a worry in the world.

I'm certain we will start paying attention now.

Rabbi Frand made this point last week with a story from the Chofetz Chaim. 6:20-7:40
https://baltimorejewishlife.com/news/news-detail.php?SECTION_ID=1&ARTICLE_ID=128789

[ah giten]

Hatzala is incredible organization and it's members are Moser nefesh and I admire them immensely even if my favorite hatzala member is no longer "immense"

I just can't see why your Rabbi doesn't consult the CDC or a competent doctor

My rabbi's job is not to sit on the phone with Infectious disease experts. When there's a problem, he addresses it.
as long as there doesn't seem to be a problem, he does his day to day work.
do you really want our Rabbis doing investigative work on everything that might turn out to be a problem?

[yuneeq]

yes, i also remember this
"First, do not panic! Although this virus is contagious, it is usually not life-threatening in healthy people. Symptoms can range from mild to severe, and some people don’t have any symptoms at all."
from the article.

Yes panic is never good. But when the rabbis told us don’t panic!!!! and nothing else, that’s worse than panicking. And yes Hatzalah told us to be so crazy that we even need to cancel Purim parties. Purim parties? Are they insane?!? It’s our mesorah! All this while we had regular minyanim and no restrictions or safeguards anywhere.

So don’t claim Hatzalah said nothing. They may have been late but that’s revisionist BS.

[skyguy918]

It's worth mentioning that even in the 5T, where many institutions were following Rabbi Dr Glatt's lead, they didn't shut down the shuls till after Purim, IIRC.