Author Topic: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19  (Read 8845 times)

Offline chevron

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #105 on: March 24, 2020, 10:48:34 AM »
I think we should take a lot of lessons from coronavirus, but the more correlated the lesson is to the events, the more it resonates and penetrates. If someone says the lesson is that we should wear tzitzis every second of the day, I will say, thanks for the chizuk, but please give me a more relevant lesson. The number one reason it spread so quickly, and continued to spread, is because our leaders were so blind. Without blaming them (we did enough of that already) I want to understand, what are the possible lessons we can learn from seeing all our leaders blindsided? Do we see a specific middah or mitzvah that correlates to a community being vulnerable and causing its leaders to be blinded?

Right so this is how I'm feeling. Also the way the frum world has evolved is that people are going to "daas Torah" on all matter's.

If people are going to be taking advice and guidance from rabbanim, the rabbanim have a responsibility to be informed.


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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #106 on: March 24, 2020, 10:58:37 AM »
I find it pretty shallow that the number ONE lesson u take from this is that our lack of preparedness is reason #1 for the spread. Obviously theres what to learn in that aspect as well but to see that this whole thread has been about "lets rail against all rabbonim" when the medical world in general thought the same way as of 2 weeks ago seems misguided at best.

You misread what I wrote.
If someone kicks someone and an hour later they break their toe, we might say - perhaps God is signaling that you shouldnít be using your leg to kick people. The lesson isnít that he broke his toe. The lesson is not that the rabbis were wrong. That is what happened. What is the cause for that happening, and the mussar we can take out of it?

Offline chevron

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #107 on: March 24, 2020, 10:59:51 AM »
I find it pretty shallow that the number ONE lesson u take from this is that our lack of preparedness is reason #1 for the spread. Obviously theres what to learn in that aspect as well but to see that this whole thread has been about "lets rail against all rabbonim" when the medical world in general thought the same way as of 2 weeks ago seems misguided at best.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/us/coronavirus-westport-connecticut-party-zero.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

This is a good article and it explains how the virus spread, overall etc and untimely responses etc

I'm not railing against rabbanim.. my Rav was with it the whole time.

I'm railing against those who didn't act even when they knew better, those that refuse to admit that they erred and to top it off they seem to have a reason why this happened from a religious and spiritual perspective.

If you think that I am the problem, 🤷 I don't care. Join the rest of the covid19 coolaid drinkers.

These type of knee jerk reactions, is how nobody ever questions anything to begin with and you always shoot down any dissenting opinions and you're incapable of seeing it the real story

Offline aygart

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #108 on: March 24, 2020, 11:00:58 AM »
You misread what I wrote.
If someone kicks someone and an hour later they break their toe, we might say - perhaps God is signaling that you shouldnít be using your leg to kick people. The lesson isnít that he broke his toe. The lesson is not that the rabbis were wrong. That is what happened. What is the cause for that happening, and the mussar we can take out of it?
This is preventing travel. Maybe look at travel. Weddings are happening in a backyard with only a minyan. Maybe look at large weddings.
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

Offline aygart

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #109 on: March 24, 2020, 11:01:44 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/us/coronavirus-westport-connecticut-party-zero.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

This is a good article and it explains how the virus spread, overall etc and untimely responses etc

I'm not railing against rabbanim.. my Rav was with it the whole time.

I'm railing against those who didn't act even when they knew better, those that refuse to admit that they erred and to top it off they seem to have a reason why this happened from a religious and spiritual perspective.

If you think that I am the problem, I don't care. Join the rest of the covid19 coolaid drinkers.

These type of knee jerk reactions, is how nobody ever questions anything to begin with and you always shoot down any dissenting opinions and you're incapable of seeing it the real story
Everything has a spiritual reason behind it.
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

Online yuneeq

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #110 on: March 24, 2020, 11:08:53 AM »
This is preventing travel. Maybe look at travel. Weddings are happening in a backyard with only a minyan. Maybe look at large weddings.

All great things to learn from, but the number 1 most concerning aspect for me is the health aspect. Why couldnít we, bederech hateva, not ignore the experts and save many Jewish lives? We didnít need to rely on miracles to save lives, but now we need miracles because we were blinded.

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #111 on: March 24, 2020, 11:25:19 AM »
All great things to learn from, but the number 1 most concerning aspect for me is the health aspect. Why couldnít we, bederech hateva, not ignore the experts and save many Jewish lives? We didnít need to rely on miracles to save lives, but now we need miracles because we were blinded.
This: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

Offline aygart

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #112 on: March 24, 2020, 11:35:53 AM »
All great things to learn from, but the number 1 most concerning aspect for me is the health aspect. Why couldnít we, bederech hateva, not ignore the experts and save many Jewish lives? We didnít need to rely on miracles to save lives, but now we need miracles because we were blinded.
One thing I can tell you is that the first call with Doctors for Rabbonim in Lakewood was last Sunday.
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

Offline zale

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #113 on: March 24, 2020, 11:37:15 AM »
I think we should take a lot of lessons from coronavirus, but the more correlated the lesson is to the events, the more it resonates and penetrates. If someone says the lesson is that we should wear tzitzis every second of the day, I will say, thanks for the chizuk, but please give me a more relevant lesson. The number one reason it spread so quickly, and continued to spread, is because our leaders were so blind. Without blaming them (we did enough of that already) I want to understand, what are the possible lessons we can learn from seeing all our leaders blindsided? Do we see a specific middah or mitzvah that correlates to a community being vulnerable and causing its leaders to be blinded?

I'm just a poshute yid (if I can even call myself that), but the lesson I'm taking from this is that we've completely forgotten our priorities and have gotten them all mixed up. We've lost sight of what's important and what is not.

Like the Shliach from China said, we violate Shabbos and Yom Kippur which are d'oraisa for pikuach nefesh, and yet minyanim which are d'rabanan we can't seem to stop?

We've forgotten why we even go to shul in the first place. It's become nothing more than a routine like brushing our teeth. Our shuls have turned into social clubs. Fancy raffles, kids programs etc. because the moms don't want the kids staying home all day on Shabbos. Chas V'sholom kids should stay home on Shabbos and disturb mommy.

Yomtov has become about finding fancy matching clothes for everyone. Overpriced designer shoes and clothing. Going to fancy vacation hotels on exotic islands for Pesach and paying tens of thousands of dollars because "I need muh break". Right, this is exactly what hashem intended when he said to celebrate Pesach? Sorry DDF'ers who go to programs, but I'm telling it like it is. It's GRUB.

Oh, and lest you see someone who is less frum then you, you must of course snicker behind their back about them becoming "modern". Because of course, Ahavas Yisroel only means loving someone when they fit the same mold as you. Ahavas Yisroel was thrown out the window a long time ago folks.

/End of rant


Online yuneeq

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #114 on: March 24, 2020, 11:37:24 AM »
One thing I can tell you is that the first call with Doctors for Rabbonim in Lakewood was last Sunday.

I'm at a loss for words

Offline aygart

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #115 on: March 24, 2020, 11:41:06 AM »
I'm at a loss for words
That is not because of the rabbonim  BTW. Had the call been arranged for them earlier the same ones would have been there.
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

Offline RewardsAddict

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #116 on: March 24, 2020, 11:41:20 AM »
I'm just a poshute yid (if I can even call myself that), but the lesson I'm taking from this is that we've completely forgotten our priorities and have gotten them all mixed up. We've lost sight of what's important and what is not.

Like the Shliach from China said, we violate Shabbos and Yom Kippur which are d'oraisa for pikuach nefesh, and yet minyanim which are d'rabanan we can't seem to stop?

We've forgotten why we even go to shul in the first place. It's become nothing more than a routine like brushing our teeth. Our shuls have turned into social clubs. Fancy raffles, kids programs etc. because the moms don't want the kids staying home all day on Shabbos. Chas V'sholom kids should stay home on Shabbos and disturb mommy.

Yomtov has become about finding fancy matching clothes for everyone. Overpriced designer shoes and clothing. Going to fancy vacation hotels on exotic islands for Pesach and paying tens of thousands of dollars because "I need muh break". Right, this is exactly what hashem intended when he said to celebrate Pesach? Sorry DDF'ers who go to programs, but I'm telling it like it is. It's GRUB.

Oh, and lest you see someone who is less frum then you, you must of course snicker behind their back about them becoming "modern". Because of course, Ahavas Yisroel only means loving someone when they fit the same mold as you. Ahavas Yisroel was thrown out the window a long time ago folks.

/End of rant
+1000.

Offline aygart

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #117 on: March 24, 2020, 11:42:22 AM »
I'm just a poshute yid (if I can even call myself that), but the lesson I'm taking from this is that we've completely forgotten our priorities and have gotten them all mixed up. We've lost sight of what's important and what is not.

Like the Shliach from China said, we violate Shabbos and Yom Kippur which are d'oraisa for pikuach nefesh, and yet minyanim which are d'rabanan we can't seem to stop?

We've forgotten why we even go to shul in the first place. It's become nothing more than a routine like brushing our teeth. Our shuls have turned into social clubs. Fancy raffles, kids programs etc. because the moms don't want the kids staying home all day on Shabbos. Chas V'sholom kids should stay home on Shabbos and disturb mommy.

Yomtov has become about finding fancy matching clothes for everyone. Overpriced designer shoes and clothing. Going to fancy vacation hotels on exotic islands for Pesach and paying tens of thousands of dollars because "I need muh break". Right, this is exactly what hashem intended when he said to celebrate Pesach? Sorry DDF'ers who go to programs, but I'm telling it like it is. It's GRUB.

Oh, and lest you see someone who is less frum then you, you must of course snicker behind their back about them becoming "modern". Because of course, Ahavas Yisroel only means loving someone when they fit the same mold as you. Ahavas Yisroel was thrown out the window a long time ago folks.

/End of rant



People likewd complaining about the people who were still buying matching clothes, but that is all part of the same attitudes. If you don't see the connection to not making pesach about the beach you need to be looking at yourself better.
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

Offline zale

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #118 on: March 24, 2020, 11:47:47 AM »
People likewd complaining about the people who were still buying matching clothes, but that is all part of the same attitudes. If you don't see the connection to not making pesach about the beach you need to be looking at yourself better.

There is more to this.

We've lost our damn minds about weddings, Bar Mitzvah's and now even Bas Mitzvah's. Every girl now wants fancy dance classes and art projects at her Bas Mitzvah. That's what we've come to. So what if you can't afford it? The amount of extravagance and waste is mind boggling. People inviting hundreds to an upsherin with fancy buffets etc.

Offline good sam

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Re: This is getting serious... a somber thread about COVID-19
« Reply #119 on: March 24, 2020, 11:54:31 AM »
I do love how everyone is pinning this on things that other people do. Why not try to find a flaw on your own conduct?
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD