Author Topic: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package  (Read 69432 times)

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #200 on: March 29, 2020, 01:05:40 PM »
I have an "umbrella" entity that manages a bunch of buildings. Each building however is under it's own corp/partnership.

Can I fill out just one loan app for the whole whammy under the management entity? (All my payroll is run through the management entity, but all utilities and mortgage payments through the individual buildings).

If someone can point me to a good article on this stimulus specifically for Real Estate portfolios owners and managers it would be very very helpful.

I think only the management entity can get the "Payroll Protection Loan" because the max loan amount is 2.5x your 2019 average monthly payroll.

Offline zale

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #201 on: March 29, 2020, 01:09:48 PM »
If someone with knowledge can post a wiki about how to get:

Unemployment from state and federal:

-as an employee
-as a 1099 contractor (Self employed)

Small business loan:

-as a business with employees
-as a business with no employees

Along with links where to apply

You would be helping out a lot of people in a real, tangible way.

Offline cgr

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #202 on: March 29, 2020, 01:10:32 PM »
Each property has 150+ units with its own staff.
If every entity is its own company with it's own payroll, an office, utilities (office utilities) etc then you should file for each entity for up to 2.5X that entities eligible expenses. If you keep all your staff on til June it will be forgiven.

Offline cgr

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #203 on: March 29, 2020, 01:11:57 PM »
If someone with knowledge can post a wiki about how to get:

Unemployment from state and federal:

-as an employee
-as a 1099 contractor (Self employed)

Small business loan:

-as a business with employees
-as a business with no employees

Along with links where to apply

You would be helping out a lot of people in a real, tangible way.
I'm working on a write up for this now (I can't post here but check back earlier posts for my link) but while a lot of details are becoming clearer, there is no system set up to actually apply yet. That will hopefully be available within the next week or two.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #204 on: March 29, 2020, 01:18:06 PM »
Actually the new depreciation schedules in the bill are awesome for a typical Heimish multi-family owner.

Hotels got a nice exception with each property in a portfolio being considered independent.

Every property is itís own small business.

Biggest costs in real estate are interest, payroll, utilities. R&M can usually be fit into payroll & utilities as well. BTW contractors are considered payroll for the sake of these loans. So if these get turned to grants itís free money.

I actually think real estate did very well here.

Macro-wise- there are many aid and charities setting up now to help people pay for the 3 necessities: Medicine, Food, and Housing. So theyíll be more rents coming in than expenditures to non-essentials. The people getting enhanced unemployment will easily be able to cover rent, in fact many are gonna be making more money. And the stimulus checks will also get used on rent.

Yes the moratoriums are terrible but Iím gonna keep a nice list and evict anyone who took advantage of us, Iíll know who still has a job etc.

Iím not planning on asking for any forbearance at this point, on the contrary, Iíd rather accelerate some interest payments and prepay utilities which will then be counted as grants.
How did real estate do well if you're collections are going to drop at least 20% for the next few months??

Which new depreciation schedules are in the bill? ?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #205 on: March 29, 2020, 01:21:36 PM »
I believe SBA small business for a multi family rental business is max 30m in revenue. They also have very strong affiliate rules so possibly most multifamily owners are not eligible for the loan with forgiveness.

Management companies should be able to get it if they are under 8m revenue

Online AsherO

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #206 on: March 29, 2020, 01:44:46 PM »
Each property has 150+ units with its own staff.

Legit payroll then, why not (unless thereís a specific RE exception. This should be something a tax lawyer/accountant can advise on.

Biggest costs in real estate are interest, payroll, utilities. R&M can usually be fit into payroll & utilities as well.

What about things like heating oil, insurance, legal fees, compliance overhead?

Offline ltttc

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #207 on: March 29, 2020, 01:49:03 PM »
If every entity is its own company with it's own payroll, an office, utilities (office utilities) etc then you should file for each entity for up to 2.5X that entities eligible expenses. If you keep all your staff on til June it will be forgiven.
Anything for real estate if their isn't any management staff and tenants pay their own utilities??

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #208 on: March 29, 2020, 02:19:31 PM »
I believe SBA small business for a multi family rental business is max 30m in revenue. They also have very strong affiliate rules so possibly most multifamily owners are not eligible for the loan with forgiveness.

Were these rules changed for these loans? I know that Shuls were excluded in the past, but can get now.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #209 on: March 29, 2020, 02:29:07 PM »
How did real estate do well if you're collections are going to drop at least 20% for the next few months??

Which new depreciation schedules are in the bill? ?

What does the 20% collection loss have to do with the bill? Thatís the viruses fault. 80% collections is awesome in a time like this. Remember this bill was written in mind for business that went to 0%, like restaurants.

https://www.businessinsider.com/wealthy-real-estate-investors-get-tax-cut-in-coronavirus-stimulus-2020-3

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #210 on: March 29, 2020, 02:31:02 PM »
If every entity is its own company with it's own payroll, an office, utilities (office utilities) etc then you should file for each entity for up to 2.5X that entities eligible expenses. If you keep all your staff on til June it will be forgiven.

But I run all my payroll the management entity, not on the property level entity.

Yet my interest and utilities are on the property level entity.

I would hate having to submit separate loan apps for each entity, would be very time consuming and complicate loan proceeds compliance.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #211 on: March 29, 2020, 02:33:22 PM »
I believe SBA small business for a multi family rental business is max 30m in revenue. They also have very strong affiliate rules so possibly most multifamily owners are not eligible for the loan with forgiveness.

Management companies should be able to get it if they are under 8m revenue

Ok this can indeed get problematic for me. But my understanding is that all the typical affiliate rules are being waived here. All theyíd be looking at is the 500 employee max.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #212 on: March 29, 2020, 02:34:38 PM »
Legit payroll then, why not (unless thereís a specific RE exception. This should be something a tax lawyer/accountant can advise on.

What about things like heating oil, insurance, legal fees, compliance overhead?

Heating oil is a utility expense. Insurance and legal fees are to be paid from whatever other revenues youíll get now, no loan forgiveness for those expenses.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #213 on: March 29, 2020, 02:36:59 PM »
Anything for real estate if their isn't any management staff and tenants pay their own utilities??

Well then thatís a pretty lean operation regardless. And the interest portion of your mortgage is forgivable.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #214 on: March 29, 2020, 02:48:31 PM »
What does the 20% collection loss have to do with the bill? Thatís the viruses fault. 80% collections is awesome in a time like this. Remember this bill was written in mind for business that went to 0%, like restaurants.

It has everything to do with the bill.

For many operators in some markets aggressive use of the court system on a monthly basis is the difference between 99 and 60% collections.

Now tenants litterally have no reason to pay for 120 days.

If you have class AA tenants, or somehow can operate at <80% collections then I guess the moratorium is no big deal.


Quote
https://www.businessinsider.com/wealthy-real-estate-investors-get-tax-cut-in-coronavirus-stimulus-2020-3




It's not a new depreciation schedule and I doubt it helps that many frum ppl. You need to have NOLs and significant non business income.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2020, 02:52:11 PM by churnbabychurn »

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #215 on: March 29, 2020, 02:53:15 PM »
Ok this can indeed get problematic for me. But my understanding is that all the typical affiliate rules are being waived here. All theyíd be looking at is the 500 employee max.
I hope so. Let us know once you confirm.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #216 on: March 29, 2020, 02:54:55 PM »
Were these rules changed for these loans? I know that Shuls were excluded in the past, but can get now.
I don't know.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #217 on: March 29, 2020, 04:59:11 PM »
It has everything to do with the bill.

For many operators in some markets aggressive use of the court system on a monthly basis is the difference between 99 and 60% collections.

Now tenants litterally have no reason to pay for 120 days.

If you have class AA tenants, or somehow can operate at <80% collections then I guess the moratorium is no big deal.



It's not a new depreciation schedule and I doubt it helps that many frum ppl. You need to have NOLs and significant non business income.

In the markets where I operate we had moratoriums 2 weeks ago. Iím not gonna blame the bill.

Bh most of our properties are Class A new construction. My worst case scenario models allow for around 35% collection loss before I need to call my lender. It was pretty rough last 2-3 years to find decently priced Class B-C assets with upside. My heart goes out to anyone who bought those assets in the last while. I sure hope they can execute their value add strategies in this environment successfully.

Which heimishe players donít make sure to have NOLís and get fee incomes elsewhere? Basics of the business...

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #218 on: March 29, 2020, 06:11:13 PM »

Which heimishe players donít make sure to have NOLís and get fee incomes elsewhere? Basics of the business...
The successful ones with no bad debt? ;)

Offline Jack out of the box

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Re: Coronavirus Stimulus Aid Package
« Reply #219 on: March 29, 2020, 07:43:28 PM »
anybody know what to do if a 21 yr old was filed as a dependent in 2019?
will filing 2020 help? or do you need to file a amendment?
someone that never filed taxes before, and in 2018 heís father filed him as dependent. If he files taxes now for 2019 and heís father files now for 2019 without him being dependent, will he be eligible?
If an individual could be claimed as a dependent on someone's tax return then he cannot claim himself on his tax return and does not qualify for the stimulus payment. If I understand correctly, the final determination is on the 2020 tax return.