Topic Wiki

IZ = Israel Zion = Maimonides Hospital

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maimonides_Medical_Center:
Quote
In 1920 Israel Hospital merged with Zion Hospital to form United Israel Zion Hospital, later renamed Israel Zion Hospital. Maimonides Medical Center was formed as a result of the merger of United Israel Zion Hospital and Beth Moses Hospital in 1947.
Hatzolah uses IZ as code for the hospital. So should we. Unless you are really good at spelling.
« Last edited by YitzyS on March 30, 2020, 09:50:37 PM »

Author Topic: Maimonides  (Read 94859 times)

Offline iAm

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 151
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #100 on: March 31, 2020, 12:40:15 PM »
Nowhere in my posts or even in the majority of posts overall are they accused of being anti Jews. Just failing miserably at health care. And that's the reason ppl are demanding access here more then in other hospitals.

The fact that Hatzolah is taking patients elsewhere only reinforces that concern.

Now just imagine the nightmares all these ppl with loved ones are having...

While I wasnt specifically referring to your posts, the tenor of many of them insinuate that jews were being targeted. They are overwhelmed - thats the reality. Having a family member in there right now screaming at the nurse to pay more attention to their relative will definitely not be in the greatest common interest for all patients.
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Offline iAm

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 151
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #101 on: March 31, 2020, 12:43:46 PM »
They can impose strict rules that don't allow people to leave the room, only allow one per day or even less than that, etc.

1 - having spent a lot of time in hospitals, this is untenable. People dont follow directions, and the staff right now cant be taxed with policing this

2- How does this work. Does the hospital have to provide the visitor their precious PPE, or does the visitor provide their own. How does the visitor than leave at the end of the day? Does he get picked up in an Uber and spread it to the driver. Does he then go home and spread it to his family.

3 - I referenced 10 of the top hospitals in the US that have instituted this policy now. This isnt a Maimo issue. This isnt a boro park issue. There are many smart people at these institutions that clearly realized it wasnt tenable to allow visitors at this time.
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Offline Yammer

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 3727
  • Total likes: 217
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #102 on: March 31, 2020, 12:43:51 PM »
While I wasnt specifically referring to your posts, the tenor of many of them insinuate that jews were being targeted. They are overwhelmed - thats the reality. Having a family member in there right now screaming at the nurse to pay more attention to their relative will definitely not be in the greatest common interest for all patients.
-1

You are disagreeing with the fundamental concept that has been proven and recommended for years.

I'm not disagreeing that the hospitals aren't overwhelmed, but it would definitely be better.

Offline iAm

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 151
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #103 on: March 31, 2020, 12:48:34 PM »
-1

You are disagreeing with the fundamental concept that has been proven and recommended for years.

I'm not disagreeing that the hospitals aren't overwhelmed, but it would definitely be better.

The concept that a visitor may improve care, is specifically for the patient of that visitor. It has deleterious affects on the flow on a hospital floor, and those are exacerbated in this type of situation. This can arguably circle back and harm the very patient youre trying to help.

Moreover, are you going to only allow visitors to covid patients and not allow to non covid patients? How do you prevent a visitor from infecting a non-covid patient - many who are in a hospital already and immunocomprimised.
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 18875
  • Total likes: 14948
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #104 on: March 31, 2020, 12:51:11 PM »
Why did Coumo overrule the hospitals to let a partner in the delivery room,

Because he is a politician?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yochiek93

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 4482
  • Total likes: 92
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #105 on: March 31, 2020, 01:12:30 PM »
Can everyone please refrain from putting out stories that aren't true. Think before you post.
As for maimonides they are doing whatever they can under the circumstances. I see first hand how overwhelming the situation is and how every staff member in the hospital is overworked but trying their best.

Online TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 22788
  • Total likes: 7264
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #106 on: March 31, 2020, 01:18:51 PM »
Can everyone please refrain from putting out stories that aren't true. Think before you post.
As for maimonides they are doing whatever they can under the circumstances. I see first hand how overwhelming the situation is and how every staff member in the hospital is overworked but trying their best.
Hatzaloh still bringing patients there ?

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 7554
  • Total likes: 3979
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Gowns By Shevy
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, Star Alliance Gold, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Caesars Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, ANA Platinum, DDF Lifetime Prez Platinum Elite, AmEx Platinum
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #107 on: March 31, 2020, 01:20:04 PM »
The concept that a visitor may improve care, is specifically for the patient of that visitor. It has deleterious affects on the flow on a hospital floor, and those are exacerbated in this type of situation. This can arguably circle back and harm the very patient youre trying to help.

Moreover, are you going to only allow visitors to covid patients and not allow to non covid patients? How do you prevent a visitor from infecting a non-covid patient - many who are in a hospital already and immunocomprimised.
If there is a visitor with every patient then patients are much more likely to receive proper care, that is NOT supposed to be to the exclusion of other patients, itís just a mechanism of having someone to advocate and call attention to things they may miss and hold workers more responsible than if nobody saw what they were doing. Similar to the role of a mashgiach in a restaurant.

I understand it can also have a negative overall effect but you havenít proven that the risks outweigh the rewards, youíve just ignored the rewards of the system that is ALWAYS in place, for good reason.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline yochiek93

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 4482
  • Total likes: 92
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #108 on: March 31, 2020, 01:24:27 PM »
Hatzaloh still bringing patients there ?
I am not a Hatzolah member so I cannot know what they are doing, but I know what's going on in the hospital itself.

Offline Yammer

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 3727
  • Total likes: 217
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #109 on: March 31, 2020, 01:42:51 PM »
The concept that a visitor may improve care, is specifically for the patient of that visitor. It has deleterious affects on the flow on a hospital floor, and those are exacerbated in this type of situation. This can arguably circle back and harm the very patient youre trying to help.

Moreover, are you going to only allow visitors to covid patients and not allow to non covid patients? How do you prevent a visitor from infecting a non-covid patient - many who are in a hospital already and immunocomprimised.
I'm not advocating that they should start allowing visitors and/or if it's feasible. I'm merely pointing out that ppl have valid concerns.

Perhaps there should be more liaisons allowed to in the hospital etc.

Offline yochiek93

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 4482
  • Total likes: 92
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #110 on: March 31, 2020, 01:52:40 PM »
I'm not advocating that they should start allowing visitors and/or if it's feasible. I'm merely pointing out that ppl have valid concerns.

Perhaps there should be more liaisons allowed to in the hospital etc.
that may not be possible, the hospital is trying to minimize the exposure as much as possible.

Offline iAm

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 151
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #111 on: March 31, 2020, 01:57:37 PM »
If there is a visitor with every patient then patients are much more likely to receive proper care, that is NOT supposed to be to the exclusion of other patients, itís just a mechanism of having someone to advocate and call attention to things they may miss and hold workers more responsible than if nobody saw what they were doing. Similar to the role of a mashgiach in a restaurant.

I understand it can also have a negative overall effect but you havenít proven that the risks outweigh the rewards, youíve just ignored the rewards of the system that is ALWAYS in place, for good reason.

1- A mashgiach is suppose to know the halachos of kashrus with which he checks the employees, while a layman visitor does not actually know healthcare with which to check healthcare employees. A common example of this is when IV pumps start beeping. Nurses tend to have a general feel for when to check on a patient, while a visitor often freaks out when it starts beeping, and goes and distracts a nurse while they are doing something else for another patient - potentially leading to a preventable adverse event.

2- It is not universally accepted as you posit, that visitors improve outcomes for patients. A simple Pubmed search on this topic would show you how many different research pubs have been written on this topic that dont have as much certainty as Shevy from Lakewood

3- Even if you were to argue that every patient's care would improve with a visitor, it is obviously not possible for every patient to have a visitor (some are widows, some have kids out of state, etc).  Is it ethical in a triage situation that those who are able to have visitors be granted better care than those that are unable? Thats just as bad an allocation as saying that those who are currently on ventilators get to keep it more than someone that needs it tomorrow

4- Until you do a randomized control trial, where some hospitals are granting visitors and some arent, you will never be able to *prove* anything. However, it is compelling that at this moment that visitors are just massive fomites and a very big public health concern in hospitals, and should be banned. And the infectious control managers at 10 of the top hospitals of the country have clearly arrived at this realization.
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 69307
  • Total likes: 17819
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #112 on: March 31, 2020, 02:07:43 PM »
Why did Coumo overrule the hospitals to let a partner in the delivery room, is he smarter than the people that run those institutions? Is he allowed to run to Cleveland clinic if he has cancer? 

There are major issues when family has no access to the patients and you have to take that into account.

They can have rules that visitors cannot leave the room, only allow one per day or even less than that, etc.
CLE Clinic is allowing a visitor in the delivery room. Denying that is rather cruel.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline iAm

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 151
  • Total likes: 39
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #113 on: March 31, 2020, 02:17:20 PM »
CLE Clinic is allowing a visitor in the delivery room. Denying that is rather cruel.

Yet theyre still not allowing visitors onto general inpatient floors, which is what were discussing here re Maimo

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/landing/preparing-for-coronavirus#visitor-restrictions-tab
iThink. Ergo. iAm

Offline yochiek93

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2015
  • Posts: 4482
  • Total likes: 92
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #114 on: March 31, 2020, 02:20:17 PM »
CLE Clinic is allowing a visitor in the delivery room. Denying that is rather cruel.
this is understandable especially since most hospitals ob departments are separated, however it doesn't minimize exposure from people spreading the virus.

Offline simplicity

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Feb 2019
  • Posts: 1030
  • Total likes: 104
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
  • Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #115 on: March 31, 2020, 02:22:51 PM »
CLE Clinic is allowing a visitor in the delivery room. Denying that is rather cruel.
cruel or not, if thats the way it stops the spread then it must be done!!!

Offline Yammer

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 3727
  • Total likes: 217
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #116 on: March 31, 2020, 02:24:17 PM »
cruel or not, if thats the way it stops the spread then it must be done!!!
Seems like NYS health officials disagree with you

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 69307
  • Total likes: 17819
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #117 on: March 31, 2020, 02:25:42 PM »
cruel or not, if thats the way it stops the spread then it must be done!!!
And yet, they're not. And they're a pretty well run hospital.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Yammer

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 3727
  • Total likes: 217
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #118 on: March 31, 2020, 02:25:58 PM »
that may not be possible, the hospital is trying to minimize the exposure as much as possible.
Have a few ppl advocate on the patients behalf when ppl believe that you are murdering people, might be pretty important...

Offline ari3

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2016
  • Posts: 1366
  • Total likes: 539
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: new jersey
Re: Maimonidies
« Reply #119 on: March 31, 2020, 02:35:27 PM »
CLE Clinic is allowing a visitor in the delivery room. Denying that is rather cruel.
I saw an article here in NJ last week someone came with his wife to deliver while he had covid symptoms and didn't tell the hospital staff.