When is this country going to be back to normal?

[aygart]

Such as?

https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexican-drug-cartels-struggle-lab-supplies-china-coronavirus


 

[hvaces42]

I don't see any of those things being long-term changes.

You dont need to see it. You just need to hope that people are given to some introspection and acceptance of change in their lives. Wouldnt it be nice to relieve the massive financial and social pressure that weddings and other simchos place on our society? Seeing that it could be done on a lesser scale should give us great pause in ramping back up to business as usual. Eating out too. Its nice to have variety of foods and "foodie culture" but is it really necessary? Introspection...again. Not everyone will get that.

I remember 9/10 if you think its only TSA and being more aware then I think you dont.   

[PlatinumGuy]

You dont need to see it. You just need to hope that people are given to some introspection and acceptance of change in their lives. Wouldnt it be nice to relieve the massive financial and social pressure that weddings and other simchos place on our society? Seeing that it could be done on a lesser scale should give us great pause in ramping back up to business as usual. Eating out too. Its nice to have variety of foods and "foodie culture" but is it really necessary? Introspection...again. Not everyone will get that.

I remember 9/10 if you think its only TSA and being more aware then I think you dont.

These issues are about fiscal responsibility. The temptation to spend money will always be high.

[hvaces42]

These issues are about fiscal responsibility. The temptation to spend money will always be high.

True. But will it change now that the societal pressure has been relieved a bit?

[PlatinumGuy]

True. But will it change now that the societal pressure has been relieved a bit?

Doubtful. Unless the economy takes a permanent turn for the worse and there is new widespread poverty RL.

[zale]

Wouldnt it be nice to relieve the massive financial and social pressure that weddings and other simchos place on our society?

Yes, this would be beautiful. Something needed to break the toxic chain of "what will my neighbors think?".

But who knows? The rich will still try to flaunt their money, and their poor neighbors will still feel the need to keep up.

[Dan]

You dont need to see it. You just need to hope that people are given to some introspection and acceptance of change in their lives. Wouldnt it be nice to relieve the massive financial and social pressure that weddings and other simchos place on our society? Seeing that it could be done on a lesser scale should give us great pause in ramping back up to business as usual. Eating out too. Its nice to have variety of foods and "foodie culture" but is it really necessary? Introspection...again. Not everyone will get that.

I remember 9/10 if you think its only TSA and being more aware then I think you dont.   

I was 16, so by all means, what else has changed since 9/11?

All of those things would be nice, as would winning the lottery. I just don't think we're going to see widespread changes without a concerted effort by many Rabonim and organizations to change things.

[hvaces42]

9/11 gave us the TSA and a general awareness of suspicious activity. Plus many lives lost and trillions spent in Afghanistan/Iraq.

I was 16, so by all means, what else has changed since 9/11?

All of those things would be nice, as would winning the lottery. I just don't think we're going to see widespread changes without a concerted effort by many Rabonim and organizations to change things.

I think whatever concerted effort you are looking for has already been done by the virus. The Rabbonim that previously issued calls for takanah weddings now need the intestinal fortitude to stick to their guns. This is not about winning the lottery.

Its not what else has changed since 9/11. Its what 9/10 felt like. I cannot adequately describe what Manhattan felt like the morning of 9/11. The sense of (false) security that existed before 9/11 was what I remember the most. It was a total shift in mentality. We had airport security and we made fun of them back then that they would let bombs through as long as they were attached to a keychain that didnt go through the xray scanner. But its not TSA and general sense of awareness.

[Yard sale]

G-d: “You have lost sight of your mission. You have made it your life’s priority to pursue everything except for the goal that you are on this planet to accomplish. Let’s take a step back and what you can do differently.”

Jews: “If you don’t mind G-d, can we be done with this already so we can get back to what we were in the middle of doing?”

[Dan]

I think whatever concerted effort you are looking for has already been done by the virus. The Rabbonim that previously issued calls for takanah weddings now need the intestinal fortitude to stick to their guns. This is not about winning the lottery.

Its not what else has changed since 9/11. Its what 9/10 felt like. I cannot adequately describe what Manhattan felt like the morning of 9/11. The sense of (false) security that existed before 9/11 was what I remember the most. It was a total shift in mentality. We had airport security and we made fun of them back then that they would let bombs through as long as they were attached to a keychain that didnt go through the xray scanner. But its not TSA and general sense of awareness.

I wonder if that shift in mentality is limited to NYC?
It's certainly felt while flying, but I don't think that happened because of 9/11 in CLE in general. Mumbai and other synagogue attacks had a bigger effect on the sense of security, though mostly limited to shuls.

[Ergel]

I wonder if that shift in mentality is limited to NYC?
It's certainly felt while flying, but I don't think that happened because of 9/11 in CLE in general. Mumbai and other synagogue attacks had a bigger effect on the sense of security, though mostly limited to shuls.

It was definitely more pointed in NYC. We literally saw our skyline change and were reminded of it on a daily basis

[Dan]

It was definitely more pointed in NYC. We literally saw our skyline change and were reminded of it on a daily basis

Makes sense.

[EliJelly]

Awareness about the benefits of vaccines and real medicine.

Halevai, but you can't fix stupid.

+10000

The other day I told my anti-vaxer relative that this is a classic example of a world without vaccines, he laughed at me saying "Look how foolish you look now after having all these vaccines"..

I was like, oh, never debate a stupid!

[yungermanchik]

I was like, oh, never debate a stupid!

This reminds me of the t-shirt that says,
"duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound"

[miles lover]

You dont need to see it. You just need to hope that people are given to some introspection and acceptance of change in their lives. Wouldnt it be nice to relieve the massive financial and social pressure that weddings and other simchos place on our society? Seeing that it could be done on a lesser scale should give us great pause in ramping back up to business as usual. Eating out too. Its nice to have variety of foods and "foodie culture" but is it really necessary? Introspection...again. Not everyone will get that.

I remember 9/10 if you think its only TSA and being more aware then I think you dont.

“Seeing that it can be done on a lesser scale “

I don’t call the weddings that took place in the past few weeks done on a lesser scale. It’s not the way a wedding is supposed to look like ! Nobody should learn from these weddings either. I’m not saying that weddings can’t be done on a lower tone, but we didn’t have anything to learn from. Major nebach on these people that got married the past few weeks. 

[cmey]

“Seeing that it can be done on a lesser scale “

I don’t call the weddings that took place in the past few weeks done on a lesser scale. It’s not the way a wedding is supposed to look like ! Nobody should learn from these weddings either. I’m not saying that weddings can’t be done on a lower tone, but we didn’t have anything to learn from. Major nebach on these people that got married the past few weeks.

Major nebach that the parents now have 30-40k to help their kids start their home? I wish my parents had done that rather than spend it all on a fleeting 5 hours....

[miles lover]

Major nebach that the parents now have 30-40k to help their kids start their home? I wish my parents had done that rather than spend it all on a fleeting 5 hours....

Easy for you to say that now.
  Why would they give you the money if they don’t spend it on your wedding. Things don’t work like that. It’s their money, not yours. Would you rather have had a tiny wedding so that your parents will have enough money for your younger brothers tuition is more the question. Besides the point, there was only savings for the actual wedding which is not always that much to begin with. All the jewelry spending, furniture etc which can cost crazy amounts were still in full force.

[S209]

Easy for you to say that now.
  Why would they give you the money if they don’t spend it on your wedding. Things don’t work like that. It’s their money, not yours. Would you rather have had a tiny wedding so that your parents will have enough money for your younger brothers tuition is more the question. Besides the point, there was only savings for the actual wedding which is not always that much to begin with. All the jewelry spending, furniture etc which can cost crazy amounts were still in full force.

Absolutely, no question about it.

[aygart]

The wedding itself is not the big expense.

[S209]

The wedding itself is not the big expense.

The wedding itself is a massive expense, including all auxiliary expenses. Sure, there are other things that cost like support and furniture, but the hall and package(FLOP), gowns, clothing, makeup, etc. are a huge expense that is largely unnecessary. If we could just make them in bar mitzvah halls with fewer guests and less frills there are many thousands of dollars in savings to be had in a Lakewood takanah wedding alone. Keep in mind outside of Lakewood even a takanah wedding is significantly more, and a for a non takanah wedding they’d save tens of thousands.

Let alone the Vort, Aufruf, and Shabbos Sheva Brachos which each alone is larger than a wedding back in the shtetl.