Masks

[avromie7]

https://twitter.com/petemuntean/status/1425207837203046401

This will lead to an interesting showdown, I suspect United will have to walk back the vaccine requirement or lose some if their staff to the other airlines who will gladly hire them due to the employee shortage.

[biobook]

This is reassuring.  Although DeSantis banned mask mandates in schools, Orange County (Orlando area) put one in place, with the option for parents to opt out.  There were 8200 opt-out requests, which is about 4% of the student population. 

So about 96% of parents are seemingly okay with masks in schools.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-11-21/index.html

[Yehuda57]

This is reassuring.  Although DeSantis banned mask mandates in schools, Orange County (Orlando area) put one in place, with the option for parents to opt out.  There were 8200 opt-out requests, which is about 4% of the student population. 

So about 96% of parents are seemingly okay with masks in schools.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-11-21/index.html

Sure, if you go county by county you might get percentages in the 90s - but it will go both ways.

[avromie7]

This is reassuring.  Although DeSantis banned mask mandates in schools, Orange County (Orlando area) put one in place, with the option for parents to opt out.  There were 8200 opt-out requests, which is about 4% of the student population. 

So about 96% of parents are seemingly okay with masks in schools.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-11-21/index.html

How does this work? Anyone who opts out will not be required to wear a mask while anyone who does not opt out will be required? Sounds like a great compromise to me. IMO the most important thing is for the parents to be able to make the decision and this accomplishes that.

I think judging by the by the opt outs on day 1 is a little premature.

[biobook]

How does this work? Anyone who opts out will not be required to wear a mask while anyone who does not opt out will be required? Sounds like a great compromise to me. IMO the most important thing is for the parents to be able to make the decision and this accomplishes that.

I think judging by the by the opt outs on day 1 is a little premature.

Yes, I think that's how it works.  For the kids, that is.  I don't know that teachers and staff can opt out.

Yeah, it makes some sense.  Just like there are some peanut-free schools.  They should allow parents to opt out, so that those kids who really want peanuts can have them, and those parents who don't opt out will agree to not send peanuts to school.

[biobook]

Sure, if you go county by county you might get percentages in the 90s - but it will go both ways.

Probably.  But the five most populous counties seem to either have or are planning to have a mask mandate.  Miami-Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, Hillsborough, Orange.  About 9 million people in those counties and 21 million in the whole state.  Whole lotta voters there.

[Yehuda57]

Yes, I think that's how it works.  For the kids, that is.  I don't know that teachers and staff can opt out.

Yeah, it makes some sense.  Just like there are some peanut-free schools.  They should allow parents to opt out, so that those kids who really want peanuts can have them, and those parents who don't opt out will agree to not send peanuts to school.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Is DeSantis blocking all mask mandates, or is he allowing mandates that allow for opt outs? If the latter, what's the mandate exactly?

[biobook]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Is DeSantis blocking all mask mandates, or is he allowing mandates that allow for opt outs? If the latter, what's the mandate exactly?

He initially blocked all mask mandates.  Some counties pleaded with him, and came up with the idea of mandates with opt outs.  I don't know if he specifically agreed, or if they just went ahead without him.  I'll see if I can find the official mandates.

[biobook]

30 day mask mandate for Orange County FL

"Opting out means sending a simple note with your child on the first day of school, such as 'I am opting out of the face mask requirement for (child's name)' with your signature,"

https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2021/08/06/30-day-mask-mandate-issued-for-orange-county-schools

This is from Hillsborough County
https://www.wfla.com/news/hillsborough-county/we-need-to-protect-each-other-hillsborough-co-schools-ask-students-to-mask-up-some-parents-opt-out/

On Friday, the Florida Department of Health adopted a new Emergency Rule, 64DER-21-12, which states “Students may wear masks or facial coverings as a mitigation measure, however, the school must allow for a parent or legal guardian to opt-out the student from wearing a face covering or mask.”

With that said, I am announcing today that Hillsborough County Public Schools will require face coverings but will allow parents or guardians to opt their child out from wearing a face covering or mask. This requirement will continue until at least September 3rd. We will continue to work with our health partners at TGH/USF Health to monitor conditions in our community at that time to make further decisions.

[Yehuda57]

He initially blocked all mask mandates.  Some counties pleaded with him, and came up with the idea of mandates with opt outs.  I don't know if he specifically agreed, or if they just went ahead without him.  I'll see if I can find the official mandates.

So then the question is how many parents 1) know about the mandate, 2) know they can opt-out, 3) know they need to formally request to opt out. And how many of the ones that don't opt out really would like to but are afraid of being harassed, berated, or just looked down on, like committing a social faux pas?

My guess is that an anonymous survey of parents would show that well below 50% want their kindergarten-age kids masked, even in counties with 96% compliance.

[biobook]

So then the question is how many parents 1) know about the mandate, 2) know they can opt-out, 3) know they need to formally request to opt out.

This is public school, so the message presumably went out the same parents are sent information about where to go the first day of school.  It does say that they can change their minds later. 

And how many of the ones that don't opt out really would like to but are afraid of being harassed, berated, or just looked down on, like committing a social faux pas?

Right.  Could also be they're worried about how it will look for future shidduchim.

My guess is that an anonymous survey of parents would show that well below 50% want their kindergarten-age kids masked, even in counties with 96% compliance.

The news article didn't have information on which kids were going maskless, but I would guess you are right, that it's more likely the younger grades. 

There are other parents who are now suing the governor or schools, because their kids have underlying health issues, and they feel they can't send them to school now with unmasked children.

[Yehuda57]

Right.  Could also be they're worried about how it will look for future shidduchim.

Not sure if this joke is supposed to diminish my point, but please don't try argue that masking and covid precautions haven't become a religion in many places.

There are other parents who are now suing the governor or schools, because their kids have underlying health issues, and they feel they can't send them to school now with unmasked children.

This fear is driven by media overblowing how dangerous covid is for kids, even with underlying health issues, and how effective masks are in schools.

Again, I'm no expert, and I follow a range of people from both sides of the spectrum, and the data just doesn't seem to support masking little kids. Which other country is doing it? The WHO doesn't recommend it. It is only the USA. Now, I'm plenty happy to say the US is ahead of everyone else, but they haven't seemed to provide the evidence. Here is one example:

https://twitter.com/davidzweig/status/1425131046782259204

[biobook]

He initially blocked all mask mandates. 

I was wrong.  His initial executive order didn't specifically say that, although that is how it was understood.  Here are some quotes from CNN after his announcement.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/04/us/florida-school-mask-mandate-law/index.html

School boards across the state of Florida were rattled by Gov. Ron DeSantis' executive order that threatened to pull funding from schools that implement mask mandates.

Broward County Public Schools reversed its decision to require face coverings, Duval County Public Schools is requiring parents be able to "opt out" of having their child wear a mask, and Alachua County Public Schools is limiting its mask mandate to the first two weeks of class.

But several legal experts told CNN the executive order does not actually ban mask mandates in schools and is more political speech than legal directive.

"It is a loosely written riff on the governor's political views on masking and parental rights chock-full of entirely unenforceable 'Whereas' clauses designed to garnish newspaper, television and Twitter soundbites, rather than judicial support in the event of inevitable lawsuits," CNN legal analyst Paul Callan said.

....
"The (executive order) does not explicitly ban regulations mandating the use of face masks by children in Florida schools," Callan said. "The authority to regulate this lies with the Florida Department of Health after consultation with the Florida Department of Education, not with the governor."

Briffault said the order does not ban mask mandates but does encourage the Florida Department of Education to ban them, make them optional or have parents opt out for their children.

and more...

[avromie7]

This is public school, so the message presumably went out the same parents are sent information about where to go the first day of school.  It does say that they can change their minds later. 
Right.  Could also be they're worried about how it will look for future shidduchim.

The news article didn't have information on which kids were going maskless, but I would guess you are right, that it's more likely the younger grades. 

There are other parents who are now suing the governor or schools, because their kids have underlying health issues, and they feel they can't send them to school now with unmasked children.

The difference in risk with and without masks is minimal at best. If they're worried now that some kids won't have masks, they wouldn't be sending their kids to school even with the mask mandate.

[avromie7]

Here is one example:

https://twitter.com/davidzweig/status/1425131046782259204

Duke is an embarrassment to science and facts. This is not the first time they published "studies" with the express intent to reach an intended outcome.

[biobook]

Not sure if this joke is supposed to diminish my point, but please don't try argue that masking and covid precautions haven't become a religion in many places.

I think you're taking a puzzling stance.   How do you differentiate the parent who accepts masks because of social pressure from the parent who accepts them because of sincerely held beliefs about disease transmission?

[biobook]

Duke is an embarrassment to science and facts. This is not the first time they published "studies" with the express intent to reach an intended outcome.

Just for the record, universities don't publish research studies.  They're published by individual researchers, of which Duke has thousands. 

[biobook]

The difference in risk with and without masks is minimal at best. If they're worried now that some kids won't have masks, they wouldn't be sending their kids to school even with the mask mandate.

This I agree with.  Some of the parents mentioned kids with autism, Down syndrome, asthma and maybe they would prefer distance learning.

[PlatinumGuy]

https://twitter.com/TravisAllen02/status/1425199938410061826

[aygart]

https://twitter.com/TravisAllen02/status/1425199938410061826

Leadership means following what I want him to do.