Author Topic: Masks  (Read 165617 times)

Online CountValentine

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1040 on: August 11, 2021, 07:45:35 PM »
The difference in risk with and without masks is minimal at best. If they're worried now that some kids won't have masks, they wouldn't be sending their kids to school even with the mask mandate.
Weren't you the guy who said the risk of kids getting covid was extremely rare? Then the risk of getting covid and being hospitalized was extremely rare? Now the risk of masks vs no masks is minimal. Excuse me if I feel you don't know what you are talking about. You didn't move the goalpost but took them down.  :P
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1041 on: August 11, 2021, 09:20:17 PM »
I think you're taking a puzzling stance.   How do you differentiate the parent who accepts masks because of social pressure from the parent who accepts them because of sincerely held beliefs about disease transmission?

Most people don't take positions based on sincerely held scientific beliefs simply because the average person doesn't have that scientific knowledge. We get swayed by the people we trust, and so it's become a political thing. In certain places, going maskless outdoors would have you berated and called a murderer because people have taken up the masking cause with religious ferver.

Of course, the reverse is equally true.

So yes, there will be some parents who will mask their kids out of deeply held beliefs, and some that will mask their kids despite their personal preferences because of what others would say. I don't see why differentiation would make a difference.

This I agree with.  Some of the parents mentioned kids with autism, Down syndrome, asthma and maybe they would prefer distance learning.

This is very surprising to me. Asthma I get, but the biggest uproar I saw about distance learning was from special needs children's parents. They were saying that remote learning was worthless, and the children need in person teaching and therapy.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1042 on: August 11, 2021, 09:34:42 PM »
Weren't you the guy who said the risk of kids getting covid was extremely rare? Then the risk of getting covid and being hospitalized was extremely rare? Now the risk of masks vs no masks is minimal. Excuse me if I feel you don't know what you are talking about. You didn't move the goalpost but took them down.  :P
When was the last time I said kids don't get COVID? Definitely not since delta came around. Things change.

It's still true that hospitalization is incredibly rare among kids.

If there are kids who are it a higher risk of hospitalization, a mask indoors for a prolonged period of time that is of little benefit at best would be stupid to be the breaking point of where they feel safe having their kids in school.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Online CountValentine

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1043 on: August 11, 2021, 10:19:09 PM »
When was the last time I said kids don't get COVID? Definitely not since delta came around. Things change.

It's still true that hospitalization is incredibly rare among kids.

If there are kids who are it a higher risk of hospitalization, a mask indoors for a prolonged period of time that is of little benefit at best would be stupid to be the breaking point of where they feel safe having their kids in school.
You are wrong on every count. Hospitalization is not rare and certainty not "incredibly rare".
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/kids-with-covid-19-are-swamping-children-e2-80-99s-hospitals-as-schools-reopen/ar-AANdbiJ?ocid=uxbndlbing
"The number of kids infected with Covid-19 is soaring as the highly contagious Delta variant spreads and schools reopen, pushing children's hospitals around the country to the brink. Nearly 1,600 kids with Covid-19 were hospitalized last week, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — a new seven-day record and a 27 percent increase from the week before. Tennessee’s health commissioner expects the state’s children’s hospitals to be full by the week’s end. Louisiana reached that point more than a week ago. And Arkansas’ only children’s hospital has just two ICU beds remaining.

Your statement that masks "is of little benefit at best" is past the kool-aid stage and doesn't deserve a response.
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Offline biobook

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1044 on: August 12, 2021, 01:47:10 AM »
So yes, there will be some parents who will mask their kids out of deeply held beliefs, and some that will mask their kids despite their personal preferences because of what others would say. I don't see why differentiation would make a difference.

Your previous post seemed to imply that you thought the 4% who opted out of masks had a good reason, and that (at least some of) the 96% who accepted masks were doing it just for show.  I guess we'll see in the next few days it those numbers hold up.

Quote
This is very surprising to me. Asthma I get, but the biggest uproar I saw about distance learning was from special needs children's parents. They were saying that remote learning was worthless, and the children need in person teaching and therapy.
I can't remember where I got that, but it was some of the news articles interviewing specific parents so could be a parent of a special needs child who was just extra worried in general. 

Here are the underlying health problems for which there might be more justification for concern.    "This cross-sectional analysis showed that children with type 1 diabetes, cardiac and circulatory congenital anomalies, obesity, essential hypertension, epilepsy, neuropsychiatric disorders, and asthma as well as children with chronic disease were at an increased risk of hospitalization or severe COVID-19 illness." 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2780706

Online CountValentine

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Offline TimT

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1046 on: August 12, 2021, 01:31:20 PM »

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1047 on: August 12, 2021, 01:41:51 PM »
Your previous post seemed to imply that you thought the 4% who opted out of masks had a good reason, and that (at least some of) the 96% who accepted masks were doing it just for show.  I guess we'll see in the next few days it those numbers hold up.


Right, and in Crown Heights, for instance, the reverse would be true.

Offline 4yourinfo

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1048 on: August 12, 2021, 07:58:05 PM »

Offline TimT

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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1050 on: August 19, 2021, 12:33:37 AM »
Remember upthread when I said doctors no longer trust the AAP because they're playing politics not science?

https://twitter.com/tapuaetai_l/status/1427844250578915330

Here's one example

Online CountValentine

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1051 on: August 19, 2021, 07:27:18 AM »
Remember upthread when I said doctors no longer trust the AAP because they're playing politics not science?
Can it be what you call playing politics was them being wrong or just changing their guidance based on new info?

ETA - Here is their guidance for COVID-19 Vaccines in Children and Adolescents: https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/early/2021/05/11/peds.2021-052336.full.pdf
Is this based on science or politics?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 07:34:26 AM by CountValentine »
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1052 on: August 19, 2021, 07:51:34 AM »
Can it be what you call playing politics was them being wrong or just changing their guidance based on new info?

ETA - Here is their guidance for COVID-19 Vaccines in Children and Adolescents: https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/early/2021/05/11/peds.2021-052336.full.pdf
Is this based on science or politics?

You clearly didn't see what they removed

Online CountValentine

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1053 on: August 19, 2021, 08:00:52 AM »
You clearly didn't see what they removed
It is hard to figure out what they are saying (twitter).

With that being said how about answering the second part?
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1054 on: August 19, 2021, 08:36:14 AM »
It is hard to figure out what they are saying (twitter).

With that being said how about answering the second part?

I didn't click on it.
"Sir, you just ran a red light"
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1055 on: August 19, 2021, 08:37:01 AM »
It is hard to figure out what they are saying (twitter).

With that being said how about answering the second part?

How about trying to understand what was said before pivoting to something else?

In short, they used to promote face-to-face interaction between infants and caregivers, saying it was crucial to the development of children. They didn't change their minds. They didn't come out with a study saying why they were previously wrong. They just removed the literature promoting it, because it contradicted their current mask push.

Could it be that they believe masks are of greater benefit right now than the developmental benefits? Sure. The honest way of dealing with the temporary shift would be to say exactly that: the benefits of masks outweigh the benefits of "face time" for XYZ reasons. The way to make everyone distrust you is to pretend you never gave the "face time" advice in the first place by deleting it from your website.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Jeremiah

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1056 on: August 19, 2021, 08:55:55 AM »

Online CountValentine

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1057 on: August 19, 2021, 09:26:12 AM »
How about trying to understand what was said before pivoting to something else?

In short, they used to promote face-to-face interaction between infants and caregivers, saying it was crucial to the development of children. They didn't change their minds. They didn't come out with a study saying why they were previously wrong. They just removed the literature promoting it, because it contradicted their current mask push.

Could it be that they believe masks are of greater benefit right now than the developmental benefits? Sure. The honest way of dealing with the temporary shift would be to say exactly that: the benefits of masks outweigh the benefits of "face time" for XYZ reasons. The way to make everyone distrust you is to pretend you never gave the "face time" advice in the first place by deleting it from your website.
There was no pivot. The tweets were hard to follow. Now @jermiah post was simple and to the point.
I agree if they are going to remove something they should explain why.

This reminds me of when masks were first discussed and the position on many in the know was don't wear them. What they didn't tells us is it was because they didn't to create a shortage for healthcare workers.

Now that we are all on the same page the main question remains is their positions based on science or politics. All I did was go to aap.org and clicked the first link about covid and children. To me it looked like it was based on science so I asked the question.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 09:34:19 AM by CountValentine »
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Online CountValentine

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1058 on: August 19, 2021, 09:35:52 AM »
I didn't click on it.
"Sir, you just ran a red light"
"what do you mean? Here's 3 hours of footage from yesterday where I didn't break any rules"
So if I run a red light that means I can't be trusted to obey the law?
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1059 on: August 19, 2021, 09:42:25 AM »
Now that we are all on the same page the main question remains is their positions based on science or politics. All I did was go to aap.org and clicked the first link about covid and children. To me it looked like it was based on science so I asked the question.

It may be well grounded in science, but their actions seem heavily influenced by politics. When a non-political medical association makes decisions that are influenced by anything other than science, they lose credibility.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.