Masks

[aygart]

There is nothing about the page that has anything to do with masks or some new policy. If it was deleted on purpose I would look for some other reason.

You don't see how "face time' and masks are contradictory? Having an alternative explanation does not make something debunked.

[CountValentine]

You don't see how "face time' and masks are contradictory?

Not when you read the article. They are talking about infants and their parents. Is anyone suggesting parents should wear masks in those circumstances?

[aygart]

Not when you read the article. They are talking about infants and their parents. Is anyone suggesting parents should wear masks in those circumstances?

Only the 3 hours makes a difference not the 10?

[CountValentine]

Only the 3 hours makes a difference not the 10?

Sorry not understanding what you are referring to.

[avromie7]

Sorry not understanding what you are referring to.

A full day of childcare with someone who is not the parent, wearing a mask.

[CountValentine]

A full day of childcare with someone who is not the parent, wearing a mask.

That has nothing to do with the article we are talking about.

[avromie7]

That has nothing to do with the article we are talking about.

I think it does, face time is important regardless of who it's from. An article encouraging face time disappearing at the same time as new guidance which encourages blocking the face comes out is highly suspicious.

[Kobe Bryant]

NY Lt. Gov. Kathy Hochul said Wednesday she will impose a universal mask mandate for all New York schools when she becomes governor next week.

“I believe we need a mask mandate for children to go back to school,” Hochul told reporters following a tour of the Louis Armstrong School/PS 143 in Corona, Queens. “And that will have to be universal. It will be statewide.”

[aygart]

Philadelphia released new mandates which began at midnight on August 13th. The Philadelphia Health Department is now requiring everyone to “wear a mask while indoors in a place where you do not know that everyone is vaccinated”. As we at Hyatt are not permitted to ask for proof of vaccination from our guests. Masks are only allowed to be removed in a group setting with potentially unvaccinated attendees where everyone is seated and eating/drinking at a table.


We need to ask but we are not allowed to

[CountValentine]

I think it does, face time is important regardless of who it's from. An article encouraging face time disappearing at the same time as new guidance which encourages blocking the face comes out is highly suspicious.

That's is your opinion and that is great. The problem is that is not what the article is talking about. They are specific about between the infant and the parent. You can find the same info about the parents voice. So if you want to say AAP decisions are based on politics then using this article is a failure.

[avromie7]

That's is your opinion and that is great. The problem is that is not what the article is talking about. They are specific about between the infant and the parent. You can find the same info about the parents voice. So if you want to say AAP decisions are based on politics then using this article is a failure.

It's kinda suspicious when an article encouraging infants to see faces suddenly disappears when a highly political recommendation that blocks faces is released.

Could it be a coincidence? Yes. Is it suspicious? Definitely.

[Yehuda57]

I don't buy the comparison to other developed countries any more than you'd accept your child's argument that "every other parent lets their kids do this."

You're really comparing a child's argument to eat chocolate for dinner to the conclusion made by every public health department in Europe and just about everywhere else in the world too? The WHO does not recommend it, neither does the EUCDC.

[biobook]

You're really comparing a child's argument to eat chocolate for dinner to the conclusion made by every public health department in Europe and just about everywhere else in the world too? The WHO does not recommend it, neither does the EUCDC.

(enjoying a glass of chocolate milk right now)

I'm comparing two different appeals to authority, the child's claim that other parents are better decision-makers and your claim that other countries are better decision-makers.  The CDC doesn't make policy by asking other countries what they've decided to do, and blindly follow them.  They look at the available evidence.  I'm not familiar with the masking policy in other countries, but if you feel they're relevant, provide the evidence.  Which country?  What do they base their decision on?  Is there situation similar to here?

[Yehuda57]

(enjoying a glass of chocolate milk right now)

I'm comparing two different appeals to authority, the child's claim that other parents are better decision-makers and your claim that other countries are better decision-makers.  The CDC doesn't make policy by asking other countries what they've decided to do, and blindly follow them.  They look at the available evidence.  I'm not familiar with the masking policy in other countries, but if you feel they're relevant, provide the evidence.  Which country?  What do they base their decision on?  Is there situation similar to here?

That's the thing, it's no one country that's a better decision maker, it's virtually *every* country making the same decision. Except the CDC. Upthread I posted a UK official explaining their reasoning. In another thread I posted a WHO report showing the guidelines of dozens of countries and only a couple of Asian countries masked preschool kids, and that was before the vaccines!

Even if you believe that masking is so effective that it over-rides the harm of covering faces, it's only as effective as the quality of masks and the way they are worn. Kids under 6 do not wear masks properly. They chew on them, they are always under the nose, and they get them dirty and wet, rendering them useless.

[biobook]

That's the thing, it's no one country that's a better decision maker, it's virtually *every* country making the same decision. Except the CDC. Upthread I posted a UK official explaining their reasoning. In another thread I posted a WHO report showing the guidelines of dozens of countries and only a couple of Asian countries masked preschool kids, and that was before the vaccines!

Upthread you posted a UK official explaining the removal of a mask requirement in March, so I searched for more recent decisions:

England
Face coverings are no longer advised for staff or pupils in school, although they're still recommended in crowded spaces such as on school buses.

Wales
Face coverings will no longer be routinely recommended in classrooms

Scotland
Staff and pupils to continue wearing face coverings in school

Northern Ireland
The government has decided to retain face coverings for post-primary students in classrooms for the first six weeks of term, subject to a review.

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-51643556

France
Colour-coded four-level health protocol for the coming school year. Levels will be based on the health situation at the time.
Green & Yellow- Masks to be worn indoors for staff and students at high school
Orange & Red - Facemasks required indoors and outdoors for staff and students from primary school age upwards;

https://www.thelocal.fr/20210813/back-to-school-covid-19-health-rules-in-france-from-september-2021/

Germany
Hamburg - mandatory masks indoors
Schleswig-Holstein - compulsory masks indoors for at least the first three weeks, but dropping them in schoolyards.
Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania - have to wear masks in class for at least the first two weeks.

https://www.thelocal.de/20210730/masks-covid-jabs-tests-and-ventilation-how-german-children-are-returning-to-the-classroom/

Italy
masks for everyone aged over six,

https://www.thelocal.it/20210705/covid-19-italian-schools-set-to-keep-using-masks-and-distancing-from-september/

Spain
continued use of masks in schools for pupils aged six or older

https://www.thelocal.es/20210809/explained-spains-back-to-school-covid-plans-for-september-2021-2/

I don't really see a strong basis for this claim:

Also, they should be able to back up why their recommendations for masking kids are so much more stringent than virtually every other developed country.

Even if you believe that masking is so effective that it over-rides the harm of covering faces, it's only as effective as the quality of masks and the way they are worn. Kids under 6 do not wear masks properly. They chew on them, they are always under the nose, and they get them dirty and wet, rendering them useless.

Agree, 100%.  More than 100% - Adults don't wear them properly either.   That definitely detracts from their usefulness, but doesn't negate it entirely.  It just means that everyone needs more guidance and training in how to wear a mask, in order to derive the maximal possible value from it.

[Yehuda57]

Iinm, all those places you are referring to as requiring masks are for kids 6 and over (or older in some places). No one masks preschool kids.

[CountValentine]

Is that the goalposts I see moving? 

[Yehudaa]

Iinm, all those places you are referring to as requiring masks are for kids 6 and over (or older in some places). No one masks preschool kids.

I think Toronto public schools require masks from junior kindergarten and up.

[Yehuda57]

Is that the goalposts I see moving? 

Nope, I've been speaking about preschool forever

[CountValentine]

Nope, I've been speaking about preschool forever

So you are OK with K-12 masking?