Author Topic: Masks  (Read 10453 times)

Online ExGingi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #90 on: June 22, 2020, 01:48:25 PM »
Do you think they'd be more accepted in places where people are being heckled for wearing them?
I have no clue. I can see no justification for heckling people who wear masks.

ETA: My gut feeling is that the most common emotion towards those wearing a mask is pitty on them that they haven't had COVID-19 and recovered. Definitely no reason to heckle. Though at this point I feel terrible for not testing positive for COVID-19, as that would have allowed me to visit EY without quarantine. My positive IgG antibody test doesn't help.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 02:10:52 PM by ExGingi »
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Re: Masks
« Reply #91 on: June 22, 2020, 02:14:17 PM »
A good reason to be using a face shield instead. Facial expressions, lip reading, and beards are all non issues.

I've said that from the outset.

Face shields are most useful in addition to wearing a mask, not instead of. There isn't great protection from aerosolized droplets with just a face shield, face shields are used to give fluid protection.

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Re: Masks
« Reply #92 on: June 22, 2020, 02:15:16 PM »
Face shields are most useful in addition to wearing a mask, not instead of. There isn't great protection from aerosolized droplets with just a face shield, face shields are used to give fluid protection.
Beat me to it
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Re: Masks
« Reply #93 on: June 22, 2020, 02:22:45 PM »
Face shields are most useful in addition to wearing a mask, not instead of. There isn't great protection from aerosolized droplets with just a face shield, face shields are used to give fluid protection.
Is the risk from real aeroslized droplets that can float under a face shield high, according to current understanding?

Online ExGingi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #94 on: June 22, 2020, 02:31:52 PM »
Face shields are most useful in addition to wearing a mask, not instead of. There isn't great protection from aerosolized droplets with just a face shield, face shields are used to give fluid protection.

So are you saying that if an infected person wearing a face shield sings, sneezes or coughs, the aerosol droplets fly towards the shield, take a turn downward when they realize the shield is there, escape, and then float back upward once they clear the shield? That's truly amazing!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Masks
« Reply #95 on: June 22, 2020, 02:37:34 PM »
So are you saying that if an infected person wearing a face shield sings, sneezes or coughs, the aerosol droplets fly towards the shield, take a turn downward when they realize the shield is there, escape, and then float back upward once they clear the shield? That's truly amazing!

Try it. Put some food coloring and water into a spray bottle, lay out a white sheet in a room with the same expected air movement, spray it at a shield, and see where the droplets end up.
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Re: Masks
« Reply #96 on: June 22, 2020, 02:51:15 PM »
Try it. Put some food coloring and water into a spray bottle, lay out a white sheet in a room with the same expected air movement, spray it at a shield, and see where the droplets end up.

Sounds like a case of טענו בחטים, והודה לו בשעורים. Your experiment seems to be for protecting the wearer. I'm talking about protecting FROM the wearer.
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Re: Masks
« Reply #97 on: June 22, 2020, 02:53:26 PM »
Sounds like a case of טענו בחטים, והודה לו בשעורים. Your experiment seems to be for protecting the wearer. I'm talking about protecting FROM the wearer.

I'm talking about from the wearer. Simulate what singing into a face shield would do to the rest of the room.
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Re: Masks
« Reply #98 on: June 22, 2020, 02:59:08 PM »
We're falling into the same trap again. Face shields are still infinitely better than nothing.

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Re: Masks
« Reply #99 on: June 22, 2020, 03:19:12 PM »
So are you saying that if an infected person wearing a face shield sings, sneezes or coughs, the aerosol droplets fly towards the shield, take a turn downward when they realize the shield is there, escape, and then float back upward once they clear the shield? That's truly amazing!
This would be an example of the science possibly working differently than “your eyes” would assume it to
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Re: Masks
« Reply #100 on: June 22, 2020, 03:22:49 PM »
We're falling into the same trap again. Face shields are still infinitely better than nothing.
They are probably better than nothing, but I wouldn’t just assume they are in the same league as masks without any evidence.
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Re: Masks
« Reply #101 on: June 22, 2020, 04:03:17 PM »
They are probably better than nothing, but I wouldn’t just assume they are in the same league as masks without any evidence.

I found this article from May 29: https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200529/face-shields-may-be-next-step-to-prevent-covid

It quotes a study in JAMA recommending the use of face shields in certain situations, however states there is no evidence about containing the virus: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2765525

"Of note, no studies have evaluated the effects or potential benefits of face shields on source control, ie, containing a sneeze or cough, when worn by asymptomatic or symptomatic infected persons. However, with efficacy ranges of 68% to 96% for a single face shield, it is likely that adding source control would only improve efficacy, and studies should be completed quickly to evaluate this."

Online ExGingi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #102 on: June 22, 2020, 04:09:05 PM »
I'm talking about from the wearer. Simulate what singing into a face shield would do to the rest of the room.

So in your experiment are you suggesting spraying at the inside of the shield from a distance of 1", 2" or 3".

Anecdotally, at the LTC facility where my mother stays, they provide the residents with face shield for encounters with visitors. Visitors are required to wear face masks (I don't know what would happen if a visitor tried to come with a face shield) and maintain a distance (all outdoors, for no more than 10 minutes, 1 visitor at a time). 0 infection rate in that facility.
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Online ExGingi

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Re: Masks
« Reply #103 on: June 22, 2020, 04:11:17 PM »
While on the topic of aerosols, is there any study or guidance about airconditioning and ceiling fans? I'd love to find some evidence that would cause 770 to stop using those ridiculous ceiling fans and put the AC to good use.
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Re: Masks
« Reply #104 on: June 22, 2020, 04:17:50 PM »
Heard one time (you'll definitely know better), that the Chabad shita of בור על גבי בור has to do with a proof from tests of colored water whether or not the water from the 2 בורות mix

So in your experiment are you suggesting spraying at the inside of the shield from a distance of 1", 2" or 3".

Anecdotally, at the LTC facility where my mother stays, they provide the residents with face shield for encounters with visitors. Visitors are required to wear face masks (I don't know what would happen if a visitor tried to come with a face shield) and maintain a distance (all outdoors, for no more than 10 minutes, 1 visitor at a time). 0 infection rate in that facility.