Author Topic: Masks  (Read 164448 times)

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1100 on: August 20, 2021, 08:24:30 AM »
So you are OK with K-12 masking?

I don't believe the evidence is so clear that it helps all that much, but if there were clear parameters set in place for when the mandate goes in and out of place without it being at the whim of some official, sure.

Offline Yehuda57

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Offline biobook

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1102 on: August 20, 2021, 05:11:20 PM »

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1103 on: August 21, 2021, 09:52:13 PM »
https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1428776963829747712?s=20

This is a model.

Your comments about the need to educate people to wear masks properly would be difficult enough for adults, and a joke for kids. It's impossible for preschool kids to wear masks effectively for any length of time.

Offline CountValentine

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Offline moko

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1105 on: August 22, 2021, 05:58:01 AM »

Offline CountValentine

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Offline TimT

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1107 on: August 22, 2021, 09:24:32 AM »

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1108 on: August 22, 2021, 09:29:41 AM »
Stick to N95 or KN95
If you have them but any mask is better than nothing.
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Offline th0306

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1109 on: August 22, 2021, 02:26:22 PM »
If you have them but any mask is better than nothing.

If you don't like wearing a mask - going to school is better than nothing....

Offline biobook

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1110 on: August 22, 2021, 02:37:15 PM »
It's impossible for preschool kids to wear masks effectively for any length of time.
Some preschool kids find it impossible to wear a kippa for any length of time.  How do you deal with that? 

ETA: I'm not asking how you deal with it the minute it happens.  But what's your longer term attitude?  Let's just cancel the kippa for this year?
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 02:44:02 PM by biobook »

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1111 on: August 22, 2021, 02:40:10 PM »
Some preschool kids find it impossible to wear a kippa for any length of time.  How do you deal with that?
So they don't. I wouldn't fight with my 4 year old to wear one because they'd win

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1112 on: August 22, 2021, 08:03:49 PM »
Some preschool kids find it impossible to wear a kippa for any length of time.  How do you deal with that? 

ETA: I'm not asking how you deal with it the minute it happens.  But what's your longer term attitude?  Let's just cancel the kippa for this year?

The masking is for now. So long as the kid isn't wearing the mask, they are not protected.

A kippa at that age is educational. When it falls off, the child can be encouraged to put it back in any number of ways. One way that I find is the worst is the strict disciplinarian "you can't have it off your head for even a second" method, which just makes the child hate wearing it and gives it extremely negative associations. I have a 4 year old boy and you'll see him without a kippa plenty. The second I turn it into a fight, I've lost. So long as he's in control, he enjoys wearing it, and he will actively choose to put it back on.

But there are times, let's say flying, when you really do need your kid to put on the mask *right this second*. Many parents don't have any methods outside of force under that kind of pressure, and you don't have the benefit of a long term strategy. And any educator or parent can attest, that those wins are very short lived.

A kippa is not at all uncomfortable for most kids, it's a matter of falling off more than being ripped off. Most kids don't realize they are wearing or not wearing it until someone points out out to them. The masks are uncomfortable. Even when my son asked me for a mask to get on the bus last year, he still didn't wear it properly.

And even if you somehow find a comfortable mask, and have a child with the temperament that they'll wear it properly, the gain is minimal, even according to those that say there is any gain at all.

And if there is that minimal gain, if your argument is that that gain is worth the harm masks cause kids of that age, surely that would only be a temporary solution. Your comment seems to imply masking is a long term thing, like wearing a kippa. In that case, yes, absolutely cancel the masks. But not just for preschool, for elementary and high school as well.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1113 on: August 22, 2021, 09:30:44 PM »
Your comment seems to imply masking is a long term thing, like wearing a kippa. In that case, yes, absolutely cancel the masks. But not just for preschool, for elementary and high school as well.
If we don't get this under control it might turn into a permanent thing.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1114 on: August 22, 2021, 10:05:40 PM »
If we don't get this under control it might turn into a permanent thing.

What does "under control" mean? That's a major part of the problem, restrictions are put in place based on arbitrary parameters with no end point target.

NY supposedly did that with their micro cluster strategy, but they only enforced it on Jews, and conveniently ended the strategy when cases rose in other areas.

In other countries they have said that if case counts rise above a certain number, then they mask kids (though not preschool age). Why did the cdc guidelines not say when it would be advisable for kids to not need masks?

Zero covid is not possible. Covid is here to stay. Hopefully the vaccines will improve and keep us safer for longer, but this kind of talk of making temporary stop-gap measures permanent is not only cruel, it will ensure people won't comply, and then they will throw out the other suggestions as well, like we're seeing with vaccinations.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1115 on: August 22, 2021, 10:12:24 PM »
Zero covid is not possible. Covid is here to stay. Hopefully the vaccines will improve and keep us safer for longer, but this kind of talk of making temporary stop-gap measures permanent is not only cruel, it will ensure people won't comply, and then they will throw out the other suggestions as well, like we're seeing with vaccinations.
So people are not getting vaccinated because of masks?
They are not getting vaccinated because they are complete idiots (99% of them). They are putting everyone in danger and don't care. Time to mandate vaccines, masks, SD and a host of other things!!!
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1116 on: August 22, 2021, 10:21:12 PM »
So people are not getting vaccinated because of masks?
They are not getting vaccinated because they are complete idiots (99% of them). They are putting everyone in danger and don't care. Time to mandate vaccines, masks, SD and a host of other things!!!

No, I'm saying a portion of the non vaxed have lost trust in public health officials, the CDC, and others because of lies, double standards and hypocrisy.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1117 on: August 22, 2021, 10:26:45 PM »
No, I'm saying a portion of the non vaxed have lost trust in public health officials, the CDC, and others because of lies, double standards and hypocrisy.
Do they trust 650k+ have died?
So who do they trust about vaccinations?
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Offline biobook

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1118 on: August 23, 2021, 12:03:28 AM »

A kippa at that age is educational. When it falls off, the child can be encouraged to put it back in any number of ways.
Just like you say:

Desired outcome: Boy wears kippa
Undesirable behavior: Boy doesn’t keep kippa on
Conclusion: Need to consider this an educational process, encourage him to put it back on in any number of ways

I would expect:

Desired outcome: Boy wears mask
Undesirable behavior: Boy doesn’t keep mask on
Conclusion: Need to consider this an educational process, encourage him to put it back on in any number of ways

But instead, you consider the child's behavior as evidence that the desired outcome is impossible to attain.

Your comments about the need to educate people to wear masks properly would be difficult enough for adults, and a joke for kids. It's impossible for preschool kids to wear masks effectively for any length of time.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Masks
« Reply #1119 on: August 23, 2021, 12:53:11 AM »
Just like you say:

Desired outcome: Boy wears kippa
Undesirable behavior: Boy doesn’t keep kippa on
Conclusion: Need to consider this an educational process, encourage him to put it back on in any number of ways

I would expect:

Desired outcome: Boy wears mask
Undesirable behavior: Boy doesn’t keep mask on
Conclusion: Need to consider this an educational process, encourage him to put it back on in any number of ways

But instead, you consider the child's behavior as evidence that the desired outcome is impossible to attain.

No, you're cutting and misframing.

Desired outcome: not wears yarmulke all the time when he grows up.
Desired outcome: boy wears mask now.

And that doesn't even begin to address all the issues raised with the analogy