Author Topic: Can we Stop Using Zoom?  (Read 4449 times)

Offline ari3

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2020, 12:12:13 AM »
Why does BMG have to meddle in every topic?   :o

Usually the way it works is someone comes running to them and explains in the worst way possible how a terrible calamity is befalling the jewish nation and their signatures are needed to save klal yisroel, facts not withstanding.

If you don't like the way they operate you don't have to live in their town or listen to what they say. The letter was written for the people and mosdos in Lakewood that do care for their opinion.

Offline SamCan

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2020, 12:21:05 AM »
If you don't like the way they operate you don't have to live in their town or listen to what they say. The letter was written for the people and mosdos in Lakewood that do care for their opinion.

Correct but it would be smarter if the question would be posted as well. Not just something vague about not using zoom. Also many prominent schools have been adopting it, did they call the schools to examine how itís done? If yes they should have said something like , ďwe examined all Soloutions and found that even tablets with zoom only has its dangers because of reason x.Ē

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2020, 12:23:15 AM »
If you don't like the way they operate you don't have to live in their town or listen to what they say. The letter was written for the people and mosdos in Lakewood that do care for their opinion.
what makes you think its their town?

Offline Definitions

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2020, 12:23:59 AM »
Vague letter. Did someone notify them that there are fully kosher tablets? The benefit of  ספרים שו״ת was that we knew the questions.
Seems pretty clear to me. I'm sure someone told them that there's kosher tablets.

I also imagine their reasoning is that the benefits of a video conference over a regular conference call/pre-recorded call is not worth the price of making inroads for stuff which is bad. Especially when older children do not need visual stuff. And for the younger children let them play for an extra month or so.

When I say bad I don't mean bad, I mean the lack of good. Because as much as bad is bad, the lack of good is 1000 times worse.

Jack of all trades, master of none.

Offline SamCan

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2020, 12:30:25 AM »
Seems pretty clear to me. I'm sure someone told them that there's kosher tablets.

I also imagine their reasoning is that the benefits of a video conference over a regular conference call/pre-recorded call is not worth the price of making inroads for stuff which is bad. Especially when older children do not need visual stuff. And for the younger children let them play for an extra month or so.

When I say bad I don't mean bad, I mean the lack of good. Because as much as bad is bad, the lack of good is 1000 times worse.


Possibly they were told about the other Soloutions, but I doubt they called up a school that does it to discuss how itís implemented.

What probably happened was schools were getting pressure from parents so  they asked the poskim to write something to get them to back off.

Zoom isnít all good,  itís not good for older kids but is much better for younger kids. My daughters school is providing all day phone classes from pre school and up so they have an excuse to charge tuition.

Offline aygart

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2020, 11:51:04 AM »
what makes you think its their town?
So don't send to a mosad that listens to them.
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

Offline aygart

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2020, 11:55:27 AM »
Correct but it would be smarter if the question would be posted as well. Not just something vague about not using zoom. Also many prominent schools have been adopting it, did they call the schools to examine how itís done? If yes they should have said something like , ďwe examined all Soloutions and found that even tablets with zoom only has its dangers because of reason x.Ē


Possibly they were told about the other Soloutions, but I doubt they called up a school that does it to discuss how itís implemented.

What probably happened was schools were getting pressure from parents so  they asked the poskim to write something to get them to back off.

I am not sure why you think that they are so naive.
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

Offline SamCan

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2020, 10:33:26 PM »
It would be naive to think they actually considered any option even for one minute, and didnít just ban the whole thing instantly.

Offline aygart

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2020, 11:16:54 PM »
It would be naive to think they actually considered any option even for one minute, and didnít just ban the whole thing instantly.
You are dead wrong. You don't want to listen to them then don't. Don't make up stupidity just to allay your guilty feelings.
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2020, 11:26:27 PM »
You are dead wrong. You don't want to listen to them then don't. Don't make up stupidity just to allay your guilty feelings.
This. Every time any Gadol says anything, you always have plenty of people saying "he didn't mean it, he was pressured, it wasn't explained to him" etc. While that might be true some of the time, it seems to me that it's always the same people just looking for an excuse to do what they want and not have to change their way of thinking.

Offline aygart

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2020, 11:30:19 PM »
This. Every time any Gadol says anything, you always have plenty of people saying "he didn't mean it, he was pressured, it wasn't explained to him" etc. While that might be true some of the time, it seems to me that it's always the same people just looking for an excuse to do what they want and not have to change their way of thinking.
I can tell you that this question was gone through with a very fine tooth comb.
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

Offline Shmobaum

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2020, 11:49:40 PM »
What percentage of parents in Lakewood have only kosher phones?
Or rather, how many households in Lakewood have a DVD player with kids watching (for hours/day)?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 11:56:11 PM by Shmobaum »

Offline SamCan

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2020, 12:24:48 AM »
You are dead wrong. You don't want to listen to them then don't. Don't make up stupidity just to allay your guilty feelings.

Asking questions about a psak given by a rav is something we see for generations, in Halacha and Hashkafa, thatís why we have thick volumes of שו״ת ספרים. We donít think they are ignorant, but we want to understand the details of what was discussed, as releasing details provides clarity, it also usually helps with those saying they were pressured. In this case questions can be asked, especially when other prominent schools did allow zoom schools to go on.

With minyanim they released a clear letter explaining the situations and their reasonings, great! They could have done the same thing here, and would have put some of these questions to rest, but they didnít, as they just have to convince school administrators not everybody, which was their goal. Yes we all know they wouldnít consider any zoom options whatsoever, even if you agree with them you believe that. 

 Next time donít attack attack me personally for misunderstanding me.

Offline aygart

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2020, 12:37:53 AM »
Asking questions about a psak given by a rav is something we see for generations, in Halacha and Hashkafa, thatís why we have thick volumes of שו״ת ספרים. We donít think they are ignorant, but we want to understand the details of what was discussed, as releasing details provides clarity, it also usually helps with those saying they were pressured. In this case questions can be asked, especially when other prominent schools did allow zoom schools to go on.

With minyanim they released a clear letter explaining the situations and their reasonings, great! They could have done the same thing here, and would have put some of these questions to rest, but they didnít, as they just have to convince school administrators not everybody, which was their goal. Yes we all know they wouldnít consider any zoom options whatsoever, even if you agree with them you believe that. 

 Next time donít attack attack me personally for misunderstanding me.
Very well, but that has nothing to do with this wrong and ignorant stuff.
It would be naive to think they actually considered any option even for one minute, and didnít just ban the whole thing instantly.

Possibly they were told about the other Soloutions, but I doubt they called up a school that does it to discuss how itís implemented.

What probably happened was schools were getting pressure from parents so  they asked the poskim to write something to get them to back off.

Zoom isnít all good,  itís not good for older kids but is much better for younger kids. My daughters school is providing all day phone classes from pre school and up so they have an excuse to charge tuition.
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

Offline SamCan

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Re: Can we Stop Using Zoom?
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2020, 01:06:53 AM »
Using the word wrong and ignorant doesnít make it so, whatever someone else says is an opinion, unless itís against the Torah or a verifiable fact.

Many Schools have or had some level of pressure to adopt zoom, and most schools donít want to do it on haskafic grounds. This letter definitely helps the administrators.
We all knew the BMG poskim would never be matir any sort of zoom in the end, the same way we can predict what most outspoken rabbanoim will pasken on most well known haskafa questions.
They released a short letter, with no explanations, when combined with their haskafa, doesnít allow me to believe they actually were considering any zoom classes seriously. If you know otherwise than you are right, and I take it back.
.