SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)

[TBD]

ERC is only for employees, and is not available to the self-employed individual.

But for ERC you can start now to employ employees to become eligible and for some people it can be worth more than all other 3 programs combined

[cgr]

So a sale you argue won't be considered in operation? I don't think so

In operation= when the business starts incurring expenses or has income.

You're right- I should have used the proper term sales or receipts, and not income.
But yes, we're saying the same thing.

[iluv2travel]

Just because Amex owns Kabbage now doesn’t mean it’s the same department/people calling the shots for both groups of PPP loans.

Thats true, but why can Kabbage and other financial institutions already be accepting forgiveness applications for awhile without seeming to need additional guidance but Amex cannot?

[AsherO]

Thats true, but why can Kabbage and other financial institutions already be accepting forgiveness applications for awhile without seeming to need additional guidance but Amex cannot?

Every bank has their own process for interpreting guidance and putting processes in place to apply those interpretations. No idea what Amex is waiting for, but maybe this isn’t a priority for them ATM.

[Hjay]

And does your 1099/Schedule C reflect that housing allowance?

I’m not sure what you mean. Parsonage income in my case is on a w-4 not 1099.

 I’ll lay it out again. Here’s two scenarios.


1. Wife make x amount on 1099/sched c. Husband makes x amount on 1099/sched c. Wife’s income went down this year & husbands went up.

2. Wife makes x amount on 1099/ sched c. Husband makes x amount on w-4 but claims it as parsonage so doesn’t pay much taxes on it (no experience yet first year doing it) & was told they don’t need to claim it as income in regards to Obamacare eligibility. Yes obviously will only be able to claim parsonage on whatever rabbinical income is offset by housing expenses.

In both cases is wife still eligible for PPP?

I think my bigger question is going to be how to calculate income per quarter because we get paid randomly not on the first of every month so there isn’t really any official income per quarter…

[gozalim]

I’m not sure what you mean. Parsonage income in my case is on a w-4 not 1099.

 I’ll lay it out again. Here’s two scenarios.


1. Wife make x amount on 1099/sched c. Husband makes x amount on 1099/sched c. Wife’s income went down this year & husbands went up.

2. Wife makes x amount on 1099/ sched c. Husband makes x amount on w-4 but claims it as parsonage so doesn’t pay much taxes on it (no experience yet first year doing it) & was told they don’t need to claim it as income in regards to Obamacare eligibility. Yes obviously will only be able to claim parsonage on whatever rabbinical income is offset by housing expenses.

In both cases is wife still eligible for PPP?

I think my bigger question is going to be how to calculate income per quarter because we get paid randomly not on the first of every month so there isn’t really any official income per quarter…

if you claim that income on taxes, pay ss tax and exempt it from income tax via parsonage exemption, you have a question.
If it doesn't get reported at all, then you have no question

[cgr]

I’m not sure what you mean. Parsonage income in my case is on a w-4 not 1099.

 I’ll lay it out again. Here’s two scenarios.


1. Wife make x amount on 1099/sched c. Husband makes x amount on 1099/sched c. Wife’s income went down this year & husbands went up.

2. Wife makes x amount on 1099/ sched c. Husband makes x amount on w-4 but claims it as parsonage so doesn’t pay much taxes on it (no experience yet first year doing it) & was told they don’t need to claim it as income in regards to Obamacare eligibility. Yes obviously will only be able to claim parsonage on whatever rabbinical income is offset by housing expenses.

In both cases is wife still eligible for PPP?

I think my bigger question is going to be how to calculate income per quarter because we get paid randomly not on the first of every month so there isn’t really any official income per quarter…

Assuming you mean that parsonage is recorded on your W2, then it shouldn't be taken into account in relation with PPP, because that's employee compensation and not self-employment compensation.

Now, back to your question:
You need to calculate the 25% reduction on a cash or accrual basis- your Schedule C should have either box checked off on Line F, and based on that you need to make your calculations.
Line 7 on your Schedule C is your gross income, which can be used to calculate your 25% reduction on an annualized basis. If your wife, in aggregate with your income on that line, or on a quarterly basis, meets the 25% reduction, go for it.
If you do not meet the 25% reduction in aggregate, but your wife does meet it separately, then it's a bit harder for me to answer... I'm still waiting for an answer but have received so much conflicting information as to the definition of "affiliate" that I'm reluctant to say anything on the matter.

[jack79]

Is it factual that SBA is not giving out less than $1000 per PPP applicant?
Which means that on line 31 of the 2019 tax return there must be at least $4800 worth of net profit?

[lakewood34]

Well said.
@cgr certainly does incredible work, but just the hosting bills alone to keep the lights on here cost 5 figures, and that's nothing compared to diaper costs for 5 newborns and toddlers between me and @jj1000

The DD affiliate link for PPP loans can be found here and as always, we deeply appreciate your support: https://www.dansdeals.com/more/coronavirus/pre-applications-ppp-funding-round-2-now-accepted/

I understand ddf is a business but it is a shame
I personally know of people that received thousands and thousands of dollars from the government directly based on what cgr said
the banks were overwhelmed and it was difficult to talk to people to get guidance and she was there and answered and guided many many people in helping them apply to a loan
although we can give back to dd by clicking on links when we buy things and apply for credit cards  this would seem to be the only opportunity to show our appreciation to cgr by clicking on her link and it is unfortunate that we will not have the opportunity to do so

[Hjay]

if you claim that income on taxes, pay ss tax and exempt it from income tax via parsonage exemption, you have a question.
If it doesn't get reported at all, then you have no question

I think I will be claiming it as I get paid on a w-4 so it’s reported already… no?

Assuming you mean that parsonage is recorded on your W2, then it shouldn't be taken into account in relation with PPP, because that's employee compensation and not self-employment compensation.

Now, back to your question:
You need to calculate the 25% reduction on a cash or accrual basis- your Schedule C should have either box checked off on Line F, and based on that you need to make your calculations.
Line 7 on your Schedule C is your gross income, which can be used to calculate your 25% reduction on an annualized basis. If your wife, in aggregate with your income on that line, or on a quarterly basis, meets the 25% reduction, go for it.
If you do not meet the 25% reduction in aggregate, but your wife does meet it separately, then it's a bit harder for me to answer... I'm still waiting for an answer but have received so much conflicting information as to the definition of "affiliate" that I'm reluctant to say anything on the matter.

I’m paid on a w-4…

I don’t understand everything you said but got the gist & will look into past tax returns to get a better picture.

Question would be if annualized there isn’t a 25% reduction but quarterly there technically is but payment in past years & this year as well was never organized monthly or quarterly, how do I prove the quarterly reduction?

[cgr]

Is it factual that SBA is not giving out less than $1000 per PPP applicant?
Which means that on line 31 of the 2019 tax return there must be at least $4800 worth of net profit?

It's not factual because I've seen loans for $700/$800, but banks have told me that that's the SBA minimum. (while others process for less, go figure).

[aygart]

I understand ddf is a business but it is a shame
I personally know of people that received thousands and thousands of dollars from the government directly based on what cgr said
the banks were overwhelmed and it was difficult to talk to people to get guidance and she was there and answered and guided many many people in helping them apply to a loan
although we can give back to dd by clicking on links when we buy things and apply for credit cards  this would seem to be the only opportunity to show our appreciation to cgr by clicking on her link and it is unfortunate that we will not have the opportunity to do so

Considering that Dan has his own link that is not reasonable to expect.

[cgr]

I think I will be claiming it as I get paid on a w-4 so it’s reported already… no?

I’m paid on a w-4…

I don’t understand everything you said but got the gist & will look into past tax returns to get a better picture.

Question would be if annualized there isn’t a 25% reduction but quarterly there technically is but payment in past years & this year as well was never organized monthly or quarterly, how do I prove the quarterly reduction?

W4 is a form that tells your employer how much dependents you have for withholding taxes. I can only assume you mean a W2, and that you have a second source of 1099 income.

Regarding the reduction calculation: look at line F- if it says cash just tally up related income by quarter, as they're deposited into your bank account- no need to worry about when the work was done.
If it says accrual you'll need to sit down and actually figure out each payment when it was for...

[jack79]

It's not factual because I've seen loans for $700/$800, but banks have told me that that's the SBA minimum. (while others process for less, go figure).

I guess it can't hurt to put in a very small amount, no?
Or could there be some down side to that?

[drosenberg88429]

I understand ddf is a business but it is a shame
I personally know of people that received thousands and thousands of dollars from the government directly based on what cgr said
the banks were overwhelmed and it was difficult to talk to people to get guidance and she was there and answered and guided many many people in helping them apply to a loan
although we can give back to dd by clicking on links when we buy things and apply for credit cards  this would seem to be the only opportunity to show our appreciation to cgr by clicking on her link and it is unfortunate that we will not have the opportunity to do so

Go on her website in her signature, and I'm sure you'll find something helpful.

[shapsam]

It's not factual because I've seen loans for $700/$800, but banks have told me that that's the SBA minimum. (while others process for less, go figure).

Did Bluevine or Cross River approve under $1k?

[cgr]

I guess it can't hurt to put in a very small amount, no?
Or could there be some down side to that?

It can't hurt- worse comes to worse you'll be rejected and that's it.
You still qualify for EIDL.

[cgr]

Did Bluevine or Cross River approve under $1k?

Kabbage did. I believe they were under Cross River at that time, but Cross River will not be approving applications under $1k for this round (or so I was told).
My bank has told me they'll look at every application, no matter the amount.

[jack79]

Kabbage did. I believe they were under Cross River at that time, but Cross River will not be approving applications under $1k for this round (or so I was told).
My bank has told me they'll look at every application, no matter the amount.

How can anyone elect to not approve an application under $1k if in fact they are eligible under SBA rules? That sounds completely wrong to me.
They should approve any amount regardless.
Is that even legal?

[cgr]

How can anyone elect to not approve an application under $1k if in fact they are eligible under SBA rules? That sounds completely wrong to me.
They should approve any amount regardless.
Is that even legal?

Banks can set their own minimums and maximums.
Just to give you another example- businesses applying for First Draw loans now can get up to $10mm- same as last round. Quite a few banks have told me that they're capping First Draw loans submitted now at $2mm (Second Draw cap) even though that's not an SBA mandate.