Author Topic: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)  (Read 167422 times)

Offline Shua

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #150 on: April 20, 2020, 09:44:30 PM »
So technically many schools can have pretty much zero expenses over the next few months. Payroll for the teachers paid by the PPP and other expenses paid by this grant (if it's a post high school institution). The argument for stopping Tuition payments just got stronger...

Offline S209

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #151 on: April 20, 2020, 09:49:39 PM »
So technically many schools can have pretty much zero expenses over the next few months. Payroll for the teachers paid by the PPP and other expenses paid by this grant (if it's a post high school institution). The argument for stopping Tuition payments just got stronger...
The grant has pretty specific usage requirements which aren’t clear as of yet, and it may be considered part of the financial aid packages schools already received. It’s not clear yet. PPP paid for 2 months of payroll and we’ll see what the grant ends up covering.

You can certainly ask for help if you find yourself in a tough spot because of corona but don’t expect to be allowed to stay in a school if you just stop paying tuition..
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Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #152 on: April 20, 2020, 09:50:49 PM »
So technically many schools can have pretty much zero expenses over the next few months. Payroll for the teachers paid by the PPP and other expenses paid by this grant (if it's a post high school institution). The argument for stopping Tuition payments just got stronger...
Remember PPP is only for 2 months of payroll (forgiveness can only be used over an 8 week period)

Offline aygart

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #153 on: April 20, 2020, 10:06:33 PM »
Exactly the point. School won't back up her claim and will reject her claim when they receive their letter to certify.
So file and then when they reject price it to the state by not having retrieved a paycheck
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Shua

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #154 on: April 20, 2020, 10:10:22 PM »
Remember PPP is only for 2 months of payroll (forgiveness can only be used over an 8 week period)

So 2 months of expenses are paid for. So there can be an argument for reduced or stopped payments next 2 months.

The grant has pretty specific usage requirements which aren’t clear as of yet, and it may be considered part of the financial aid packages schools already received. It’s not clear yet. PPP paid for 2 months of payroll and we’ll see what the grant ends up covering.

You can certainly ask for help if you find yourself in a tough spot because of corona but don’t expect to be allowed to stay in a school if you just stop paying tuition..

I agree that you cant just stop payments without having a conversation from the school. But I think the schools should realize the situation that a lot of the families are in and maybe give something back (and dont get me started on asking parents to pay for kosher tablets... schools should be paying for that completely).

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #155 on: April 20, 2020, 10:16:02 PM »
So file and then when they reject price it to the state by not having retrieved a paycheck

The DOL can open a labor case against the school for not paying in a timely fashion. Wage cases are notoriously biased against the employer, and they always find more stuff to hit you with. As a Yid she does not want to be the cause of this. (I understand I came across a bit harsh before but I think my further explanations explain it a bit. She's making every effort to do things the right way without causing them any harm while still trying to put food on the table while they...)

In my opinion the school will undoubtedly come running with the check if she had the backbone to tell them about the above but alas she doesn't. Even if she did does that mean that only those strong enough to fight for it will get paid in a timely manner? Also, how would you feel about facing your employer after having declared a willingness to take up a case against?

It's a thorny subject and the teachers are being left out to dry, with a lot more at stake than the Mosed, who has donors who will help it survive come what may. After hearing what a few of them are going through, I just couldn't hold back. Hope I didn't personally offend anyone.

Offline yzj

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #156 on: April 20, 2020, 10:18:41 PM »
So technically many schools can have pretty much zero expenses over the next few months. Payroll for the teachers paid by the PPP and other expenses paid by this grant (if it's a post high school institution). The argument for stopping Tuition payments just got stronger...


I think people are missing the point. The argument makes sense if you’re already paying full tuition but the vast majority of parents are paying a negotiated rate. That negotiated rate is based primarily on the parents ability to pay. If there are two less months in the school year, assuming the parent still has the same ability to pay, there is no reason to discount the already discounted rate. If the parent’s income was impacted by the virus, the school may still have a floor as to how much they are willing to discount the tuition which is fully within their rights. Given that the schools expenses are somewhat lower perhaps they should give some consideration to accepting an even lower discounted tuition arrangement . But the basic premise that parents who are already paying a low negotiated rate -“what they can afford to pay”-should be able to withhold tuition is really missing the boat.

Offline Shua

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #157 on: April 20, 2020, 10:35:09 PM »

I think people are missing the point. The argument makes sense if you’re already paying full tuition but the vast majority of parents are paying a negotiated rate. That negotiated rate is based primarily on the parents ability to pay. If there are two less months in the school year, assuming the parent still has the same ability to pay, there is no reason to discount the already discounted rate. If the parent’s income was impacted by the virus, the school may still have a floor as to how much they are willing to discount the tuition which is fully within their rights. Given that the schools expenses are somewhat lower perhaps they should give some consideration to accepting an even lower discounted tuition arrangement . But the basic premise that parents who are already paying a low negotiated rate -“what they can afford to pay”-should be able to withhold tuition is really missing the boat.

Do you think the vast majority of parents are paying a "what they can afford to pay" tuition?

Schools expenses are somewhat lower? Most schools must have significantly lower expenses (due to PPP and Grant), if not almost zero expenses over the next 2 months.

I think saying that now, where literally thousands of frum people have lost their jobs or had significant reductions in salary that perhaps a school should give some consideration to a tuition break (where you are making it sound like the schools are doing us the favor) is really missing the boat.

Offline ilherman

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #158 on: April 20, 2020, 10:39:37 PM »
1) What does this have to do with unemployment? Also, they are continuing classes so why would they put someone on unemployment? They need the teachers to continue working.



4) What is “making off like bandits” even supposed to mean? These are non-profit schools that generally need to fundraise to balance their books. The head of each mossad makes a salary, usually a paltry one at that. Nobody is lmaking off like a bandit”.
seriously? No school I know has given a break for tuition so why wouldn't they be able to pay their employees?

Non profits? You know how much Harvard is worth? Check how much they got.

One thing I'm disappointed from Trump. He didn't manage to clean the swamp. Which benefits the rich and well connected. While businesses are going under because ppp is out of funds, they have 8mm to give to Harvard.
You can say what you think when you think what you say.

Offline yzj

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #159 on: April 20, 2020, 10:41:17 PM »
Do you think the vast majority of parents are paying a "what they can afford to pay" tuition?

Schools expenses are somewhat lower? Most schools must have significantly lower expenses (due to PPP and Grant), if not almost zero expenses over the next 2 months.

I think saying that now, where literally thousands of frum people have lost their jobs or had significant reductions in salary that perhaps a school should give some consideration to a tuition break (where you are making it sound like the schools are doing us the favor) is really missing the boat.

I see people advocating not paying tuition across the board, whether they lost their parnassa or not. That is not a reasonable position.

Offline Shua

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #160 on: April 20, 2020, 10:45:43 PM »
I see people advocating not paying tuition across the board, whether they lost their parnassa or not. That is not a reasonable position.

I agree. However, I think it should still be a conversation with parents. I have not heard one school send out a letter or email acknowledging the hard times we are in and maybe showing how the yeshiva is applying for PPP or Grants to relive the strain on the parents. In fact some yeshivas have the chutzpah of asking parents to pay for kosher tablets!


Offline S209

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #161 on: April 20, 2020, 10:47:18 PM »
seriously? No school I know has given a break for tuition so why wouldn't they be able to pay their employees?

Non profits? You know how much Harvard is worth? Check how much they got.

One thing I'm disappointed from Trump. He didn't manage to clean the swamp. Which benefits the rich and well connected. While businesses are going under because ppp is out of funds, they have 8mm to give to Harvard.

Certainly many people have stopped paying or are paying less, as many people have a lot less money now and have reached out to the schools about it. Schools don’t need to be giving an across the board break to be down a lot of their regular revenue. Keep in mind the vast majority of schools face a deficit each year anyway, even with all tuition paid.

We are not discussing Harvard. Do you really think the schools in our community are getting rich and fat off our backs? If so, go open a school. You’ll soon face the grim reality.
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Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #162 on: April 20, 2020, 10:52:48 PM »
We are not discussing Harvard. Do you really think the schools in our community are getting rich and fat off our backs? If so, go open a school. You’ll soon face the grim reality.
Plenty of those schools on the grant list have more than enough to go around...

Offline aygart

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #163 on: April 20, 2020, 10:55:04 PM »


Certainly many people have stopped paying or are paying less
Many is a gross understatement
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #164 on: April 20, 2020, 11:02:42 PM »
Plenty of those schools on the grant list have more than enough to go around...
Name one
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