Author Topic: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)  (Read 547536 times)

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1200 on: May 19, 2020, 01:51:50 AM »

Definitely not. If I'm an employEE and my EmploYER who was funded on May 18 writes me a check May 19 for $15,000 and than he fires me, Im not employed the next 7 weeks

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1201 on: May 19, 2020, 01:53:03 AM »
If he writes that check for one weeks earnings he might get into trouble for unethically raising your wage with government funds. I'm sure they'll let a few dollar increase pass, but unless you always earn that much in a week, I advise him not to try it🙃
There isn't any rule disqualifying pay raises

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1202 on: May 19, 2020, 01:53:59 AM »
Definitely not. If I'm an employEE and my EmploYER who was funded on May 18 writes me a check May 19 for $15,000 and than he fires me, Im not employed the next 7 weeks
And he gets no forgiveness because of an FTE reduction...

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1203 on: May 19, 2020, 01:54:28 AM »
There isn't any rule disqualifying pay raises
Oh don't worry. I'm sure we'll see interim rule #897 soon

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1204 on: May 19, 2020, 01:55:08 AM »
And he gets no forgiveness because of an FTE reduction...
He can hire back 2 PTE working 1 hr per month which equals 1 FTE

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1205 on: May 19, 2020, 02:00:13 AM »
He can hire back 2 PTE working 1 hr per month which equals 1 FTE
If you look at Schedule A you'll see you need to list a) wages paid b) FTE count
You can't uses wages from one employee and FTE count from another (not sure how this works when choosing alternate comparison dates)

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1206 on: May 19, 2020, 02:06:22 AM »
If you look at Schedule A you'll see you need to list a) wages paid b) FTE count
You can't uses wages from one employee and FTE count from another (not sure how this works when choosing alternate comparison dates)
Why not? You will need to enter the total of box 1, 2, 3,  from table 1 of the worksheet. it will include ALL employees

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1207 on: May 19, 2020, 02:10:43 AM »
POSSIBLE WORK AROUND FOR SE INDIVIDUAL WITH NO NON-PAYROLL EXPENSES WHO ARE LIMITED TO 73.85% FORGIVENESS. HIRE YOUR WIFE AS AN ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEE FOR YOUR BUSINESS AND PAY HER THE OTHER 26.15% IN PAYROLL COSTS. (could be you will need to file it with payroll taxes)

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1208 on: May 19, 2020, 02:14:33 AM »
Why not? You will need to enter the total of box 1, 2, 3,  from table 1 of the worksheet. it will include ALL employees
Agreed. That will also include you and your 15k. Not sure how you get 2 PTs to stand in at a different salary level.

But if you're so eager to take a shot at it give it a try and let us know how it worked out.

Offline cgr

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1209 on: May 19, 2020, 02:15:53 AM »
POSSIBLE WORK AROUND FOR SE INDIVIDUAL WITH NO NON-PAYROLL EXPENSES WHO ARE LIMITED TO 73.85% FORGIVENESS. HIRE YOUR WIFE AS AN ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEE FOR YOUR BUSINESS AND PAY HER THE OTHER 26.15% IN PAYROLL COSTS. (could be you will need to file it with payroll taxes)
You are limited to 8/52 of your Schedule C for in lieu of payroll forgiveness.

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1210 on: May 19, 2020, 02:20:51 AM »
You are limited to 8/52 of your Schedule C for in lieu of payroll forgiveness.
Only for the OWNER not if you hire another employee.



Line 9:  Enter any amounts paid to owners (owner-employees, a self-employed individual, or general partners).  This amount is capped at $15,385 (the eight-week equivalent of $100,000 per year) for each individual or the eight-week equivalent of their applicable compensation in 2019, whichever is lower.  See Interim Final Rule on Additional Eligibility Criteria and Requirements for Certain Pledges of Loans posted on April 14, 2020 for more information (85 FR 21747, 21749).   



ON LINE 1 YOU CAN STILL ENTER OTHER PAYROLL COSTS

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1211 on: May 19, 2020, 02:23:42 AM »
You are limited to 8/52 of your Schedule C for in lieu of payroll forgiveness.
NO LIMIT ON ADDING ADDITIONAL EMPLOYEES, ONLY THE OWNERS COMPENSATION REPLACEMENT IS LIMITED TO 8/52 OF SCHEDULE C


The amount of loan forgiveness can be up to the full principal amount of the loan plus accrued interest. The actual amount of loan forgiveness will depend, in part, on the total amount spent over the covered period on:

 i. Payroll costs including salary, wages, and tips, up to $100,000 of annualized pay per employee (for eight weeks, a maximum of $15,385 per individual), as well as covered benefits for employees (but not owners), including health care expenses, retirement contributions, and state taxes imposed on employee payroll paid by the employer (such as unemployment insurance premiums);

 ii. owner compensation replacement, calculated based on 2019 net profit as described in Paragraph 1.b. above, with forgiveness of such amounts limited to eight weeks’ worth (8/52) of 2019 net profit, but excluding any qualified sick leave equivalent amount for which a credit is claimed under section 7002 of the Families First Coronavirus Response Act (FFCRA) (Pub. L. 116–127) or qualified family leave equivalent amount for which a credit is claimed under section 7004 of FFCRA

Offline shtickel

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1212 on: May 19, 2020, 02:59:54 AM »
General question re self-employed. If someone earned $100K+ on 1099 in 2019, they're eligible for the full $20K+ loan and the full $15K+ forgiveness. What if they earn some money during the 8-week period, albeit reduced? Does the forgiveness calculation take into account earnings by the self employed person during this time?

Offline TBD

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1213 on: May 19, 2020, 08:04:07 AM »
General question re self-employed. If someone earned $100K+ on 1099 in 2019, they're eligible for the full $20K+ loan and the full $15K+ forgiveness. What if they earn some money during the 8-week period, albeit reduced? Does the forgiveness calculation take into account earnings by the self employed person during this time?
No person can earn forgiveness on more than approx $15,325, However as I posted earlier it's possible that you are allowed to hire an additional employee and pay him, which would be eligible for forgivness

Offline Shua

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1214 on: May 19, 2020, 08:36:46 AM »
Two questions.

I see on the forgiveness form a place to put in if you received the EIDL advance. But it doesn't say anywhere on the form where you include that amount in your calculations! Are you supposed to subtract the amount on line 9?

I am an S corp and I pay myself payroll. Am I considered owner-employee? Would that mean I can't include state and local taxes in forgiveness? If I cant, can I raise my salary? Or include distributions (that go on a K1) into forgiveness?

Offline TravelSER

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1215 on: May 19, 2020, 08:41:52 AM »
Any tips how to reach Kabbge by phone?

Offline zh cohen

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1216 on: May 19, 2020, 09:08:24 AM »
Just realized something about PPP.

Many individuals with very small 1099/Schedule C held back from going for PPP because UI is more beneficial.

In NY (and this is even more lucrative in NJ) you can file for partial UI if you earn $504 or less, and work 3 days or less.
That means that someone with a 26k Schedule C can apply for a PPP of 5.4k, get 4k forgiven (comes out to $500/weekly) as 8/52 owner compensation, and use about 1.3k for other expenses. (Looks like all sole props will need to return that remaining 1%), and then would still be eligible for partial UI. Assuming he gets the minimum benefit rate on PUA, this is what it would look like for those 8 weeks:

PPP- $500/weekly
UI- between $136.50 and $45.50 depending on how many days you work for your Schedule C business (NY min PUA is $182- his rate gets cut by 25% for each day he works)
FPUC- $600
Total Weekly- between $1,145.50 and $1,236.50

You'd have to be willing to go through the process of applying for PPP and the forgiveness after, all in order to get that extra 5.3k... but hey, this is DansDeals we're talking about.

How do you file for unemployment if you are still making the same amount as before?

Offline zh cohen

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1217 on: May 19, 2020, 09:28:29 AM »

But if you're so eager to take a shot at it give it a try and let us know where to contribute to your legal defense fund once the FBI comes knocking

FTFY

Offline A3

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1218 on: May 19, 2020, 09:31:00 AM »
Does the SBA EIDL loan amount show up on personal credit report?

Offline beeweegee

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Re: SBA PPP and EIDL Small Business Loans (some money is forgivable)
« Reply #1219 on: May 19, 2020, 10:11:53 AM »
Any tips how to reach Kabbge by phone?

This is the only number (of many I tried) that worked for me.  888-313-4078